Ok awhile ago i found Ella on her playmat with a spill that contained dark burgundy colored blood and little clot like things best described as the size of coffee ground bits but able to be mushed. I called plunket line and they said to take her to the dr to which i did and we are now waiting to go to the paed on Nov 22. She did that spill when she was on dairy (normal formula). We got told to change her to soy due to a possible dairy allergy. Now today and yesterday shes been spilling excessively for her and i also found more of those coffee ground size clot things in her vomit. Her vomit is also chunky and mucusy.

My questions are:

1 - Could this be an allergy to soy?
2 - What are the coffee ground sized clot thingees?
3 - Would teething be making her vomit more?

Shes not overly upset just unsettled alot lately.

Thanks in advance.

PS I have had someone suggest a gastric ulcer but i have never heard of one of them in my life. I feel silly and naive, i keep thinking nah she wouldnt have that!!!

Just a really quick reply. It sounds like blood that has been in her stomach. If it is coming straight from her oesophagus it will be fresh blood but if it has been in her stomach the general term is coffee grounds. It may still have come from her oesophagus though and been swallowed. I wouldn't leave it if it is continuing. The 22nd is way too long. Is she on any reflux medications? What colour are her poos? Digested blood will make them appear black. I would suggest you take her back to the doctor tomorrow and tell him it is still occurring, and if neccessary they can refer you to the hospital urgently.
Best wishes

Oh, acid can eat into the oesphagus or stomach lining causing an ulcer - very much like what you get in your mouth at times I guess. These areas are left vulnerable and can bleed.

Yer shes on losec in the morning. Her poos are dark in color like a dark green color but i didnt think anything of it i am going to the dr tomorrow so am gonna tell her about it again. Even tho its not many its the fact that they are there!

Thanks Roz

Is she on losec? The losec granuals go pink when the medication is released in the gut... just in case thats what the coffee ground things are.

Of those children with a "true" diary allergy, about 47% will have a soy allergy as well... have heard different numbers, but thats what my paed said, and he's an allergist.

Yes, teething can make a baby more spilly. They swallow a lot more saliva (saliva softens the gums for the teeth to break through more easily, so teething babies produce lots of saliva).

Hope the doctors comes up with some answers! Hang in there.

Yer these arent pink tho they are really dark like coffee grounds. Shes been teething for awhile and i thought maybe but i think its something else. Mummy instinct i guess.

God, sounds awful. Can you stamp your feet and see a paed fast than the 22nd? Mummy instincts are amazing aren't they. I hope you get it sorted soon (for both your sakes). Cyber sympathy to you.

Thanks chicka! even tho there is less than her first one like maybe 1 - 4 in a little spill its the fact that they are there at all that worries me!

Life sure gives u a run for your money huh?! What doesnt kill you makes you stronger and im gonna be able to lift a house after all this LOL

If it isn't a lot don't panic - too much. The green colour poos could be blood or it could be the change in formula. Hypoallergenic formulas though are usually the ones to cause green poos not soy. It is easy enough to send some to the lab to get it tested for blood. Is she on an adequate dose of Losec? Is there room for increasing it? Does she seem to be in pain as well?
Now I've asked all those questions I'm off to bed as we have an early start in the morning and I may not get back to answering these for a day or two depending on the surgeon's opinion.
Good luck.

Shes on 10mgs once a day. I asked my dr and she said that the paed will increase it if need be. She gets quite crabby and has been uncomfortable lately but that could be teething to. Its hard to tell lately.

I suggest you ask the GP for a lab tube so you can scoop up some of the 'coffee grounds' the next time you see them and get them analyised to see if it is blood. I wouldn't be waiting until the 22nd if I could help it! If it is an ulcer then it can be very dangerous.

I went to the dr today and she called the paed team at kenepuru and htey wanted to see Ella so i took her down and they decided its not 'coffee grounds' but they dont know what it is as they have never seen it before.

I have a sneaking suspicion now that i know its not blood that its losec. If it is shes bringing up half of it every day, why would she be doing this? Even at 2am in the morning when i gave it to her at 7am the morning before?

Im so frazzled!!!

Are they dark purple in colour? That is what Losec looks like after a while in the gut. Not too sure why she would have some Losec to still bring up after 19 hours of taking it, should be well absorbed by then.

Hmm, what a puzzle.

Yer dark purple in color. Its so strange! I asked if u can be allergic to it and the dr just dismissed it like i was silly. Maybe i am i dont know but am i the only one who thinks that a baby bringing up losec 19 hours later is not normal?

Was just thinking it might be because Ella isn't moving stuff through her tummy at a good rate?

i dont know what does that mean then?

Katey also goes through [hases when her reflux is at it's worse of vomitting up her dinner at breakfast time. There are drugs out there that encourage the stomach to move food through it faster, but I don't have Katey on those drugs (although we have had them prescribed) so can't comment further.

Might be something to do with how bad her reflux is currently, or there could be another underlying reason for why her tummy isn't working properly - like a tummy bug.

Yer awww shes always really hungry but i dont know i guess ill have to wait till we see the specialist for it.

Frazzled is my new word for me after all this!

Thanks heaps chicka! Im glad this board is here!

Jess - Maya was allergic to both dairy and soy. The dairy was an immune system thing, the soy was more of an intolerance and upset her digestive system so she couldn't digest anything properly. Just a thought.

Hi Jess
You'll have to go by your gut feeling as to whether she is crabby with reflux pain or teething. If it is teething you could try paracetamol and/or a teething remedy to see if that helps. If you think she is in too much pain from her reflux then it would pay to seek help again. Your GP may not be comfortable prescribing higher doses of Losec. Were the paed. team happy with her reflux treatment and symptoms?
Best wishes

Could the constant vomiting/spilling on the soy be an allergy? Shes always hungry to and its like 2 - 2.5 hours later. Its not a growth spurt shes just finished one. We are giving her as much as we can in the bottle for her age.

Any advice is appreciated

Hi Jess, the same happened to Sophie when I tried soy milk with her. She also spilled/vomited constantly in between feeds and was hungry almost immediately after finishing her bottle. I tried only 2 days and decided it wasn't for her, I don't know the reason for it but I suspect an intolerance to soy. I've been following your thread and although I don't have any idea of what those "coffee grounds" are I just wanted to say that I hope you find the reason soon and everything is ok with Ella, good luck. Some time ago I read in some other forum about a baby spilling bits that looked like blood and it turned out to be losec, sorry don't remember where so I hope all goes well with you and Ella, I know how frustasting and worrying it can be when nobody can give you an answer!

Thanks chicka Im pretty sure it was losec to i found more today.

What else can i try her on? Can someone recommend something for me please?

Have you tried Goat? or Lactose free?

Im just wondering if she got dairy allergies then wouldnt goats milk be a bad idea? Would the lactose free be ok for her?

I think you need to see a GP or prob a paed to see if yu can get some dairy free formula. There are two on the market - Pepti Jnr and Neocate. You can get a subsidy for both of them.

A large percentage of kids intolerant to dairy are also intolerant to soy and goats milk. If it is a dairy issue then lactose free formula won't help.

Ok we are seeing the paed on Nov 22 so i guess we will have to keep on the soy till then as i have no other options and my gp wont prescribe anything until we have seen the paed.

Thanks

Callt he Noecate suppliers in NZ (Nurticia?) and they might be able to help out by supplying some samples?

oh oki do u reckon they will be able to do that? isnt neocate prescription? or am i confused lol

Yes, it is perscription but I have heard that they will supply you with a sample if you ask them. I didn't know that when we were awaiting our first tin of formula ... but I would of called if I did know!

Ok cool i may just call them

Thanks

they ask you to get your pead's or GPs nurse to call them to get your sample.. at least they did with us

I tried a couple of Friday's ago to get a sample tin of Pepti-Junior, and they wouldn't until I had the paed ring them and ask... I think it depends on the person you speak to. The lady on Friday was not very helpful, but the lady I spoke to on Monday was a sweetheart.... call on a Monday!

Legally they can't send it to you unless they get confirmation from your paed, but if you get the paed to ring them they are great.

I just rang biolab and they are sending me a tin of pepti junior - number is 0800 688 743 (i think) -I have seen the paed but am pretty sure she didn't ask me about that - the nutricare lady gave it to me and it was also thru them that I will ce speaking to the neocate lady - the nutricare number is 0800 688 742 and you can be transferred to neocate by pressing one of the options at the beginning

Hi Jess, just a thought, how are you giving Ella her Losec?

Ok i think that i will jsut wait to see the paed its in 10days.

Im giving her the Losec with pears. Researched it and have also had input about it nothing else i can do with how i give it to her.

the bio lab number is 0800 688 747 for the pepti junior product

Soy gave Gem colic type pains and a rash but it didn't aggravate her reflux a lot. I would recommend that you phone and speak with one of the dieticians at nutricia about your formula choices. In an ideal world probably a trial of pepti junior would be best so you may need to wait out that ten days until you see the paediatrician. Allergy experts wouldn't recommend goat's milk for a milk allergic baby but for some reason a lot of our babies with gastric reflux do well on it. It could be an option once you have finished this tin of soy until you see the paed. Nutricia will probably be able to send you a sample of it if they agree. Lactose intolerance is relatively rare and there is some information on this in the food section of our website.

Another thought is to add Gaviscon Infant to the feeds which may help keep it down. If spilling and then being hungry are the main issues this may help considerably.

Good luck.

Thanks Roz, i do add the gav to her bottles and have upped it since and shes stopped spilling for now. Ill see what she is like tomorrow. Today she just plain out refused to feed for over 6 hours she had 120mls over that time. I managed to get water into her but not a heck of a lot. I guess im just at the point now where i am really confused.

Does she seem unhappy/in pain when she won't take a bottle? How is she today?

Yer she fusses on it and sticks her tounge out and screams at me!

Shes good today been sleeping alot she has good days and when they are good i manage to get my mentality back

I'm glad today is a good day. Roll on the 22nd!