Hey guys - have been trolling through internet pages but can't find what I want to know.
I'm hoping there are some mid-wives/nurses or people in the know who can answer my question.

* Can it be detected at birth?

I know the symptoms - I want to know whether at birth a doctor can detect it.

Thanks

Hi HG

Can be quite distinctive so often can be noted at birth - have been to a few deliveries when the paed has queried it and asked further questions from the mw and family. There are different degrees of it. Will try and find more info for you.

Oh thank you, thank you Chinook!!!

I just thought of another one - how much alcohol causes it?

They dont know how much causes it I think. That's why its best not to have any.

Hg , I'm not a medical professional but have had exposure to many children with FAS. The children who I had contact with had mother's who drank heavily and continuously throughout their pregnancies. Not sure if that helps

I know of some children who haven't had the physical characteristics, but as they have grown have had some learning or developmental delays, and FAS has been considered as a strong liklihood. I also taught one child who had some of the physical features, some behaviour issues (though nothing too full on) but no developmental delays and in fact was very clever.

As to how much alcohol, that is the magic question really - some cultures it is normal to have a drink a day even in pregnancy and there is no higher incidence of FAS at that level. Some people you hear of having a lot to drink trhough pregnancy and the child has been developmentally and intellectually normal.

Then there are cases wheere a child has had early detectable FAS signs and the mother has stated minimal drinks, often in the period before detecting pregnancy.

Such a hard one really.

Yes I've read online that FAS is normally associated with alcoholic mothers, rarely with those who drink a few times a week.

I just wonder if a mother 'lies' lets say about the alcolhol, can the doctor tell at birth if the child suffers from FAS.

I think too that because every individual processes alcohol differently that no one actually can pin point how many drinks is too much iykwim? There are so many other factors to consider ie: how far along in pregnancy, the type of alcohol consumed, any medical factors, genetics etc.

My thoughts are that to have NO alcohol in pregnancy guarantees no risk whatsoever.

I think you will find that the aswer is yes and no - sometimes it is obvious, sometimes it really isn't. Helpful eh - not! Sorry

There is FAS and FAE some people have the Syndrome and some have the Effects.

You can have several symptoms and a history of drinking during pregnancy for Effects.
You have all the symptoms and a history of drinking during pregnancy and it should be evident in the facial features from birth for Syndrome.

I have a friend whose mother adopted a FAS child who went on to give her a FAS granddaughter and she tried to get ACC for the granddaughter for abuse before birth but they lost the court case.

I can put you in tough with her, she is quite a recognized name in dealing with it, no a Dr but who they interview on 60 mins etc when it comes up.

ofcourse thats the ultimate, but not always achievable for people in my shoes.

I wonder what alcohols are worse than others?

Apparently pediatricians check for foetal dysmorphic features at birth (according to our SW) ...don't google that... I did and man its sad!!!

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In your shoes? Sorry, not sure what you mean here...

Nothing to contribute to the conversation, but good luck HG

Kezza - adoption....

Because I'm not the birth mother Kezza - ofcourse I wouldn't drink but because we are hoping to adopt we are at the mercy of another person who may have abused alcohol during pregnancy.

thanks

HG, sounds like a scary and possibly exciting time for you, I hope you get the info you need

HG, nothing to add either as what I was going to say has already been said. Sending loads of positive vibes your way!

Thanks guys i'm not getting my hopes up - but it feels great just having a chance!

Did your folder get selected HG?

Best of luck

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Oh I see. My apologies, I wasn't up with the play. good luck HG.

hey hg

someone else mentioned it on here as well, but there's two types - there's fetal alcohol syndrome (FAS), and then the loweer threshold of fetal alcohol effects (FAE)

FAs is easier to diagnose or question at birth, as it requires the facial features to be present in order to have the diagnosis. It is not always diagnosed at birth however, and sometimes (like many forms of developmental delay) not diagnosed until much later. also, my understanding is that in order to have the facial features of FAS, the drinking has to have taken place at a specific point in the pregnanay (about 3 weeks gestation i think), which means that many of the babies who are affected by alcohol during pregnany don't actually have the facial features and arent not diagnosed with FAS.

FAE is the much more common condition - and is the condition that is diagnosed when the facial features are not present. i understand that there is some thinking that many of the children diagnosed with ADHD may actually have a form of FAE - though this wouldn't be the case for all, and is probably somewhat controversial.

A GP or peadiatrian or development education person could probably give you more information.

Well I will cross everything for you and DH, HG.

Great info rashuns!!! Thank you!

Our profile has been chosen by the sw to present to the birth mother so yeah we just have to wait and see if we get picked! There are so many deserving people out there!

Everything is crossed for you, HG Best of luck

True that ... but I still hope they choose you .

I still doubt there are many as deserving as you HG.
Got my fingers crossed for you too.
Good luck

Aww thanks! You guys are so awesome! I just hope one day I can come on here with some wonderful news!

Far out, that is one online party I dream of!

You will I'm sure - all the best

I reckon! Man DH is getting all tut-tutty on me.... He thinks we shouldn't get our hopes up. He's right but even if we dont succeed I'm feeling positive our profile is actually getting out there-not collecting dust!

How exciting! Goodluck HG!

Good luck and I really hope you are choosen.

I was hopeful that that is why you are asking. I have my fingers crossed for you guys!!

Best of luck!

My fingers are crossed for you guys. Hope it all works out.

Good luck HG

Best of luck to you and DH, and also to the little baby being born with no FAS issues.

Best of luck HG

No comment on the FAS but hooray for having your profile chosen All the best x

Yay at last your profile is being looked at by someone, if they know what they are doing they will choose you HG, so deserving

Best of luck HG. Got our fingers and toes crossed for you

Good luck HG

Fingers crossed for you Mrs & Mr HG

Crossing everything!!

Wow, I am so excited for you hon! Yes, your DH would be tut tutting me too lol! I will be praying and hoping that you are chosen. Gosh who wouldnt choose you!!! I definitely would!

Good luck HG!!

Thinking of you and crossing everything for you

YEP this. it has varying degrees, severe FAS - is usually marked with specific physical characteristics - which are picked up on immediately. less severe FAS might not be picked up until the child is older/starting at school etc - it can cause behavioural and attention difficulties aswell which can be hard/impossible to pick up on in a young baby.

I've never been at a delivery where that specifically was queried, but have bn at deliveries where other conditions like downs syndrome have been - so they do act on physical characteristics being present at birth. usually if the midwife is at all concerned the Paed will be called to the delivery suite- (or postnatal ward/wherever the mother/baby are) who will have a look and go from there.

From what I know(and this is just from my textbooks/in class learning) a newborn with FAS is usually small, facially has thin upper lip, small eyes with skin folds in the corners
and a gap between upper and lower lids, small head circumference, short retrousse nose, large ears that aren't very intricately formed, and the area between the nose/lip is very flat - and these are MORE obvious the worse the FAS is and don't all have to be present - the more present the higher the indication of more severe brain damage.
I know there are other things like clinodactyly of the fifth fingers (a bend in the little pinky finger), heart murmurs and septal defects, cleft lip, short neck, altered palmer crease, thoracic abnormalities, hip lesions, undescended testes, kidney abnormalities, hypoplastic (not fully developed) labia etc where FAS is one of the things they look at when trying to diagnose (but doesn't have to have FAS to have one of these - just some of the other things that FAS can cause iykwim).
so yes Id say a child with moderate-severe FAS could be diagnosed at birth from symptoms-but an actual diagnosis would probably not be an on the spot thing but you know you'd know it was a possibility pretty soon and probably wouldnt take too long to diagnose if had clear symptoms/features of it...but a mild form of FAS would be harder to diagnose.

hope that helps somewhat

oh HG how exciting for you- ill be at that online party when the good news is announced for sure!

nothing to add that others havent already said- like many special needs/conditions there are varying degrees of it and that is sometimes evident, sometimes not when a child is born. and many mothers have drank through their entire pregnancy and had perfectly healthy bubbas, and some have had the odd drink and have a child suffer from the effects of alcohol.. there is still so much unknown about this condition- some say its how much is consumed, some say its a certain time in the babys development when it is consumed that causes the damage (id say a combination of both personally..) hoping for the best for you though and i know youll be a great mumma no matter what sounds like the wee bub will be FAR better off with someone amazing like you rather than its birth mother anyways, as sad as that is to say. but i hope and pray your dream comes true VERY soon! x x x

have everything crossed for you, so exciting
will you know if your folder is chosen by the birth mother - or do they still do the 'only let you know once baby is born' thing? .

gosh quite nerve racking at your end really - all the cares and decisions you would take yourself when pregnant you have absolutely no influence over - and its not like you get to have a look and change your mind either. xxxx

Great news your fodler is out tehre, HG, let's hope it gets to the next stage!

*squeee* that would be awesome if you guys got picked!

YOU GUYS ARE MOST DESERVING

How exciting - good luck HG

How exciting HG, best of luck to you!

Is there some indication that FAS may be an issue with this child? From my knowledge there is a critical developmental stage which is sensitive to alcohol and unfortunately it is early in the first trimester, so some unwittingly fall foul to it due to not knowing they're pregnant.

Good luck, I really hope they pick you!

Good luck HG. Crossing everything for you.

Good Luck! Really hoping to hear some good news!

Best of luck HG!

and loads of it!

Oh yes

All the best HG

Good luck