I'm new to these forums, but am really wanting to talk to others who have been through this.

After a straight forward 20 odd weeks of pregnancy and my 20 week scan confirming everything was perfect, at 22 weeks I begun bleeding. I was admitted to hospital for rest until it stopped. 2 days later (in hospital) my waters broke. A further 2 days and I had a show. Lots of monitering and tests showed no reason for what was happening and our baby still had a strong heartbeat and I was sure I could keep him safe. I have a friend who also had her waters break at 23 weeks and she had gone on to have her baby at 26 weeks, and she is now 5. She was supporting me and I believed I would get a miracle as she had. We were shown round NICU as I seemed stable and hoping to hold on until 23 weeks and 5 days when they would begin steroids and do everything possible to save my baby.

22 weeks and 6 days I had cord prolapse, an amazing midwife managed to push everything back in and things seemed stable. A specialist came and told me though that he (my baby) would probably come soon and they wheeled me down to delivery. We sat there for several hours and nothing happened, baby was still doing well. Back up to the ward and we were told he was an amazing fighter.

I slept through the night, still with hope. Then around 9am I had to go to the bathroom. Disaster in my 2nd cord prolapse, and this time there was no pulse in the cord. A scan a few minutes later revealed my baby was no longer with us. He died at 23 weeks. They wanted to induce me but I refused and we waited for it to happen naturally.

His birth was the most painful (physically and emotionally) experience of my life, as my body and mind fought it, not wanting to let go. After about 7 hours labour our beautiful baby was born. He was perfect and it seemed so unfair there was no reason for this. He was born the following day at 23 and 1.

We took him home for the weekend so the kids and rest of our family could meet him. I am so so pleased we did this.

We have since had his funeral and I am slowly recovering physically.

I'm not sure where to go from here. I still cry alot and question everything. I get mad and angry at everyone and every thing. I cant face Christmas, yet I want to make it happy for my children. The rest of the world seems to be moving on as usual, only I am stuck in this time warp of grief and disbelief and anger.

I would really love to talk to others who have been through this. If you have read all this, thank you so much.

so sorry to read of your loss while I am fortunate to have not been in your situation a close friend of mine has. She has found great support and help from SANDS - thinking of you

hi mumto2+2 - i'm so, so sorry to hear about your loss. i think that your question, where to from here, is a really common one, but i want to assure you that there is not a "right" way to go. it seems to me that you and your family have an amazing sense of what you need - you had your baby your way, you brought him home to meet the family, you had a funeral for him. i really admire and respect you for this lovely knowledge that you have of what you all need.

i'm sorry to say it, but what i know is that you are only at the beginning of a hard journey of grieving for your little boy. i know this because i have been through it and am still going through it. our little boy died and was born at christmas time three years ago, so this is a hard time of year for me and my family. the thing to remember is that there isn't any right and wrong, only trusting yourself that you will do what you need to do to learn how to live with this terrible loss.

doesn't matter how many times i answer to a post like yours, to another mama who has lost a baby, the tears come up and i feel hot and cold. but i'm glad that we're all here together and can talk and support each other.

Hi Mum to 2+2, I am so sorry to hear of the loss of your little boy, and that you have had to join this cruel club. I can only imagine that things are pretty raw for you and your family right now.
We also lost our little girl, just over 4 years ago now, on November the 14th, which again is close to Xmas. I really don't know how I got through that 1st Xmas but I did and the only advise I can offer is to do everything that you need to, for you to get through it, the best you can. Don't worry about what people think, concentrate on how you feel and the things you need to do to feel connected to your sweet boy and your family. It won't be easy and you have a difficult journey ahead of you. Journey gently and at your own pace. One day alot further down the track you will feel almost normal again, and your little boy will always be in your heart and your thoughts.

BabyT mentioned SANDS which I would definitely recomend. Its and informal support group where Mothers and Fathers can talk about the loss of their child. I found in particularly helpful, and due to the fact that I had a living child also, it gave me the opportunity once a month to concentrate solely on my angel.

My heart goes out to you. COme back and chat if you feel the need.

Thank you guys for replying x I am so so sorry for the loss of your little baby's. Life seems so unfair sometimes when we lose something so precious.

I am wanting to contact SANDS, trying to, but not quite able to yet. I know it helps to talk to people who understand so feel the need to belong somewhere, and like you said Satori's Mummy, have some time for it to be all about him. It is very hard to grieve in front of the kids, we have my DS7 and my partners kids, my stepchildren, DS5 and DD4. I have cried alot in front of them, and am now trying not to. They know its ok to cry, but its not fair on them, especially at this time of year... I want them to have a happy Christmas.

I'm not sure I know what I need... well I need a miracle really, or to wake up and find it isnt true, all a bad dream, and I'm still pregnant with my baby safe inside of me. But that isnt going to happen... so I'm at a loss of what I need now.

I am making a memory book, we have lots and lots of photos, footprints and things from him, I have made the kids necklaces with a little baby footprint charm, so they have something special to remember him by. We are making a garden, several friends have given us special plants for this, and I made a big mural for the garden too. My partner and I are planning on getting his footprints tattooed on us. I feel the need to keep doing things, to honour him, and while I keep doing things for him, I feel like I can cope... or not cope, but survive.

Also.. I feel like the world is carrying on normally and I am stuck here in this place, grieving my son, while he slowly fades from everyone elses memory. I think thats why I keep doing things for him. Scared of forgetting.

The only thing I cant do, that I want to.. is his headstone. His grave seems wrong.. without it, but they are so expensive. We spent the last of our savings on the plots - we needed to buy ourselves 2 plots, and we buried him in the middle of them... I had no idea headstones were so horrendously expensive. Can I ask you guys what you did?? Or any ideas?

Anyway.. Thank you guys so much for replying... its good to feel not so alone in my grief, but so sad that others have felt it also.

Oh honey...

I don't know what part of the country you are in but please contact Sands. We all need someone who understands what it feels like (to an extent, since our experience with loss is personal and always different) at this time of enormous grief.

Aww, this had made me well up too, I'm so very sorry for your loss. I think all the memories you have created/are creating are truly lovely and I think you've done a wonderful job of honouring your wee boy

This Christmas/New Years is when our baby boy would have turned 5. It never leaves you, but it does get easier with time. In the beginning it was a matter of surviving hour-to-hour, then day-to-day, week-to-week, and with time the good days outnumber the bad. You never forget, but it is a part of you, and you learn to go on living.

There is a wonderful free service for mums of angels where they send you a free plaque, it is about 10x15cm, so not a full headstone, but still something really lovely. The link is http://glovermemorials.co.nz/ -> go to Community Care -> SANDS

I would also like to recommend a book called Baby Gone by Jenny Douche, it is true stories of New Zealand ladies who have struggled with stillbirth, miscarriage and infertility, there are a number of ladies (including myself) whose stories feature in the book. You can buy it at www.myangel.co.nz which is run by one of our members here, and she also has gorgeous keepsakes and jewellery to remember your lost baby. Many libraries and bookstores also carry it.

Once again, I'm so sorry for your loss, and wish you and your family all the best this Christmas

DFL, Beck, SatorisMummy... lots of love to you also

Thank you DFL. Yes I will. I just find it very hard saying the words 'my baby died' out loud - so having to make the phone call to them is difficult.

Thank you too Redlady. I have seen the myangel website, she has done a wonderful job ... I was searching for charms for my pandora and couldnt find anything in NZ I wanted. I also wanted charms for the kids, which I also got in aussie, but I see they are on the myangel website, I am not sure why I didnt discover it when I was searching insanely for footprint charms. I will have a look for that book.

I have emailed Glover memorials and they are making me one... its an amazing thing they do for people.

Thank you both, and thinking of your wee angel babies too xxx

Another day nearly over.

Hi Mum to 2+2, I hope today has been as good as it can be. As Redlady said, it is very much an hour by hour, day by day, month by month process. I would say that the 1st 3-4 months were really just a blur, and I moved through that time on auto pilot a good percentage of the time.

I am glad you have contacted Glovers, aren't they amazing for offering the service they do.

Other ideas for Xmas may be to have your immediate family let of balloons for your son,(that way you can involve the kids) light a candle for him, or plant something in his garden.

We planted a tree for Satori, which blossoms around her birthday. On her first birthday I had a headstone made, to place next to the tree - it very comforting to have something tangable that you can take care of. The tree is in a box, so I plant flowers around it and we get her ornaments, windmills etc. She is part of our family, so we try and include her and people have come to accept that.

I am not sure what area you are in but if in Auckland the Central SANDS meetings resume in Feb. I haven't been to one in a while but from memory they are the 2nd Saturday of the month, however they do not have a meeting in Jan. Do it at your own pace, but a good support network to have.

Thinking of you and sending big hugs.

Hey Mumto2plus2. I just want to give you a hug - I so feel where you are at. I was there this time last year.

Although I had a little more time between loss and Christmas, I felt exactly the way you described. I will never forget the feeling of wanting to yell to the world "would you just stop already - I have LOST MY BABY - How can you go on like nothing has happened!!!??!?" But sadly the world does go on even though you are not ready to.

I am glad you have been in touch with Glover Memorials. That will give you something nice as a placeholder until you can afford what you would really like. And there is no rule book saying you have to put up a headston within X months ... or anything for that matter... do what you want when you want. No one will expect you to have everything under control this Christmas. Ask friends or family to do the xmas shopping for you if you cannot face it. Ask to go somewhere for xmas dinner. Or buy premade stuff. Do not put pressure on yourself... this is the one Christmas you will be forgiven to be lapse and look after yourself. I am sure your children will understand too. I have just written our Sands newsletter and in it is a piece on Coping with Christmas... maybe you might enjoy the read http://us4.campaign-archive2.com/?u=50f2a179adc9076f7697995a1&id=1eef4f639d

Also, I know how hard it is to contact Sands, but honestly it was the best thing I did. If you want me to I am happy to put someone in your area in touch with you... just PM me what area you are in and your number I can get the local ladies there to call or text you... I know a few Sands people around the country.
Or you can contact them through Facebook... many groups have their own Facebook page... Sands NZ is http://www.facebook.com/SandsNewZealand

I love the special things you have done for your son.

I feel you have to take care of yourself. It is very early days - everyone has different ways of coping and getting through, so find what is best for you. Just remember, it is ok to cry. It is also ok to laugh. Do not feel guilty if you feel happy or laugh. It does not mean 'you are over it' - you will never be "over it" - you will learn to live with it and carry the pain. You will survive, you will laugh and enjoy life again... but you will also always miss and treasure the son you have lost. And it is ok. It is how we all go on.

Thinking of you... and if I or any of us here can help with anything, please ask.

It feels like a blur - Satoris Mummy... I have no idea the last month really how it has passed. I have another month then I have to go back to work. I have approx 20 minutes then the school holidays begin.

I like that you planted a tree that flowers for her birthday. We are planning to start Koby's garden this weekend - well the clearing of the space which is a shambles, so that we can start it for Christmas. So that means we can look forward to Christmas, which means his garden will be started.

I am in the Waikato. I had a look at the Sands newsletter Denz, and the Christmas article. I might email the Waikato contact, instead of ringing, as I saw there was an email address. Denz - that is EXACTLY what I want to yell at everyone. Had a good talk to my partner last night cos he has been away with work and so busy it was like he was moving with the world away from me, but he isnt... he is struggling just as much as me, which sadly and probably wrongly - makes me feel better. He also said something, that I hadnt thought of, that also made me feel - maybe slightly more at peace, or will make me feel that way in the future - if that makes sense.

I get the guilt thing as well...

Thanks for the hugs... if I knew how to do those thingys I'd do them back

That is a good idea if you do not feel like ringing. Janet is a lovely gentle lady. I would email them your mobile number... I know our sands group does a lot of texting. It is hard walking into your first meeting, but you soon realise they are all the same as you and it really is coffee with friends - friends who have all been where you are at so they can empathise and support you in your journey.



I know cause I have been there hun

Glad you had a good talk to your hubby. I do not think it is wrong that knowing he is in the same space as you makes you feel better - I think that is normal and you would more be angry with him if he had "moved on already". Just remember, men cope with grief differently to women, and although they may appear to be coping, they often are dealing with things internally. They also often feel a sense of responsibility to hold the family together so you can grieve. Always remember, he lost his son too.

I get the feeling chatting on here has helped you. We are all here for you always.

Kia Kaha

Just popping in to follow up on the thread and send some more love! Good to see you chatting here, and good luck with contacting SANDS.

PS. the smilies can only be seen in the Full Reply Screen mode, there is a drop-down box you can choose from, and once you get familiar with them you can just type them in yourself... it is just a word with : : on either side. (You can also hover over the icon in someone elses post to see what the word is, and just pop the colon on either side of it, with no spaces, when you are typing a post. HTH!)

:hugs: and thank you for your replies.

I had such an awful night I feel so exhausted today. First day of school holidays and I am a wreck. And the photos I ordered online (cos I couldnt face going into a photoshop to get them printed - confirmed after I went into our local one to get some magic dots, and the lady behind the counter was looking through some photos they had just printed going what an ugly dog .. why do people even have dogs like that) have just arrived... I want to sit somewhere quiet and make up Koby's photo album/memory book. But will wait, until another time, childfree.

I was so sad and mad last night. Koby was the first child for myself and my partner. I feel so bad as well I couldnt keep our son safe for him, for us, for our family. I couldnt give him our baby. I want us to have a (another) child together, but as well as feeling so heartbroken about Koby, I'm so scared that we will never get that experience. I am 41 now and just dont have time on my side. We were told before I got pregnant (after ony 3 months of trying) that we would need assistance, and after 9 months of trying, we decided that it wasnt going to happen.. coincided with my 40th. But then 6 months later after we had given up our little miracle Koby was conceived. I know its early to be thinking about this, but I cant wait until I am ready, it may take years to feel strong enough, and by then if I am already considered ancient by doctors now, imagine in a year or two time. And I can imagine how heartbreaking TTC will be, and how terrifying a subsequent pregnancy would be...

Then I am so sad and broken all the time, I keep thinking maybe he wont want me anyway. Its really not much fun being around me. I know he feels he has to be strong for me/us but how long will he feel like that, what happens when he finishes grieving before me, and wants to feel 'normal' and enjoy life as much as possible, and I'm still in this horrible place...

I really need to stop my mind thinking all this. And contact sands. At least typing it all out is getting it out of my head for a bit.

Everything you say sounds like a normal part of the grieving process, and even though you feel guilty, and (emotionally) ugly and ruined, trust me, you are not You are in the depths of your mourning, and it really does take several months to emerge from the haze.

We lost our first baby too, and it is scary because you just don't know if that means you will never have a baby, or if there is anything wrong with you physically to stop you from having a healthy pregnancy. I went through some quite intensive testing to find out what went wrong, and no reason was ever found. I went on to have 3 healthy pregnancies and babies, but at the beginning, you just don't *know* what lies ahead for you. And you are right, subsequent pregnancies are very difficult!

My only advice would be to get a great Obstetrician, and talk to them about all your options, including fertility treatment.

Hope that today is a better today, and you are feeling okay after spending some time looking at your photos.

It's good to know all this is 'normal' and not me going mental..

That must have been tough after losing your little boy. And hard with no reason. It looks like we might have a reason, but now I'm second guessing that also, wondering what I could have done differently to my first trouble free pregnancy, to cause this.

Congrats on your 3 girls... they must keep you busy

I had alot of tests done in hospital, and got a letter the other day to say an 'abnormality' has been picked up in one of the tests, and I have to have more tests done in Feb (12 weeks after birth) to confirm this initial finding (which they havent told me what it is - tho the lovely letter says - 'no need to be alarmed at this stage' - someone should tell them those words have the opposite effect to what they want). We have an appt with the OB in early March to discuss the results.

My MW has just been to visit.. I showed her the letter and the lab test form. She said that what they are testing for is to do with blot clotting and something else (have forgotten already - oh dear).. which will affect future possible pregnancies. She said this abnormality will probably be 'the reason'.

Today I feel very 'foggy'. Have spent several hours helping my boy sort out lego pieces as he wants to remake something he remodelled, and wanted help on his mission finding all the pieces. Mindnumbing stuff. We couldnt find half of them amoungst the huge pile... and after 4 hours he has given up for the day. Good effort by him. Now I feel like I need a sleep.

I want to wish time away so I can function properly, but at the same time I dont want it to pass, cos I am strangely connected to him still in my grief. Plus, with these thoughts, and talk about the future, and contraception (thanks to my MW) I'm scared with time passing, I'm also aging and running out of eggs... I hate getting older - its so not fair. Happened without me realising really.

Oh I was just going to say, it could be something simple like blood clotting (that was the only thing they found out-of-the-ordinary for me, slight elevated anticardiolipin levels, so for my next 3 pregnancies I was on aspirin) so yeah, I would try not to panic if I were you. If it were anything really scary I'm sure they wouldn't leave you in suspense like that for 6 weeks!!!

Sorry, I was just having a blonde moment before too, I read that it was your first baby, not your first baby with your partner. But regardless, you didn't do ANYTHING wrong from one pregnancy to the next, please please please try not to blame yourself or feel that you have failed, the likelihood is that you haven't done ANYTHING wrong to make this happen.

Stay strong, hope the lego sorting provided some distraction!

Just popping in to send more and

MUMTO2PLUS2 Im so sorry to read your story and all youve had to go through. I wish I could give you a hig and make it all go away. It doesnt go away though, however time does heal.
EBB is a great support network and its wonderful how we can all be here for one another. Sending you lots of hugs.
Be kind to yourself
Xx