I have had a niggle about DD for a long time, but I think we have just got use to her and who she is.
I mean no child is the same and some require more effort than others.

But since she has started school, some things are getting brought to my attention.
Last year was her first year at school, and she seemed to really well. There were alot of high energy kids in her class, so she just fitted right in there.

Then this year, her teacher mentioned her lack of concentration, fidgets alot. Always needing the teachers constant reasurance. The teacher said she was really anxious, which we found hard to accept as she has always come across as bubbly, fully of energy and happy.
The school got a behaviourist involved, to observe her and help the teacher with some stratergies for dealing with our daughter.
We though that was really good.
But unfortunately before they could really get anywhere with her, our lives changed and we ended up moving countries.

In the 6mths before we left, we also noticed her struggling with concentration at her swimming lessons. If the pools were full of people she was very distracted and constantly had to re adjust her goggles and flippers and all sorts of things.

It wasn't till nearly the end of this term at her new school, her teacher is noticing similar stuff that I guess it is really making me wonder.

I had someone mention Aspergers, and when I talked to DD teacher the other day, she said maybe ADD, but then said she was not qualified to diagnose. She also said with all the change DD has had her anxiety could just be related to that.
But since she was showing these signs before everything changed, I am thinking it could be something more.

I don't know how to answer, what I am sure will be many questions, if we get her assessed.
As to us, it is just her. But to other people she always comes across as hyper, full on, very talkative, very affectionate, fidgety, can't concentrate. Because these are the comments we get.
How do you determine what is normal and what is not, when you are use to your child just being who they are?

Hey Tania, sorry to hear you have all these worries going on. At the end of the day we all want our kids to be 'normal' and it is hard when you have a bit of a feeling that something isn't quite right.

For me, I found it pretty obvious Logan was different, in a group of kids his age he stood out a lot, inability to sit still, fidgety, 'in your face' with other kids, really loud, unable to calm down. I pretty much knew from age 3 that Logan had something and was pretty sure it was ADHD so wasn't surprised at all with his diagnosis at age 5. Being aware early and also being under the paeds since birth he did get diagnosed earlier than most kids so that was great.

I'm not sure about the process in Australia but perhaps DD's school teacher could point you in the right direction of getting her assessed. Visiting the GP would be a good idea too - write down everything that concerns you about her behaviour, it is easy to be fobbed off.

I think you need to trust your intuititon, if you feel something isn't quite right then push to have assessment/investigations done, the earlier you can get help the better.

Good luck, happy to help anyway I can

Thanks Nicky
Her teacher just said to go to GP and get a referal to see a specialist,I have got a GP appointment tomorrow afternoon and see where they refer me to and go from there.

i could see that my DS was different to other kids - he had soooo much energy, he would talk the hind legs off a donkey, he would focus totally on something that he was interested in, but trying to get him to do something that he wasn't interested in was like getting blood from a stone. he was always really particular about what he wanted to do, there were things that he had no interest in (like writing, or drawing).
i always figured he would either settle into school or not. he did okay in his first half year; but he had a teacher who really 'got' him, i think that is key. then he had a teacher the next year who liked him, but didn't click with him in the same way...

originally i had him assessed because he was having a lot of anxiety issues, he would scream blue murder when we took him to school and a teacher would have to restrain him - he was also having problems in class, he does this thing where he rolls around on the floor... he also has no concept of personal space so the other kids get irritated because he's always up in their face, needling them or climbing on them or things like that. he started flipping out about little things - at home, he was anxious about going to bed and the dark, he would melt down if we used the wrong brekky plate etc, everything had to be the same all the time. at school he would flip out over little things and have a giant screaming tantrum and then be fine ten minutes later (i kind of describe it now as his brain being too overwhelmed to handle everything so it short circuts and reboots - once it reboots and the pressure is gone he can think properly again and move on). not small tantrums either, ones like, you know, the principal at the other end of the school comes out of the office and goes 'who is dying?!' type thing.

he was assessed as being ADHD when he was 6, when he was almost 7 i had him assessed again and he is also at the gifted end of the spectrum (something i didn't consider until i read something about 2E kids and they had a checklist and i read it out to dh and he was like 'it's like they followed him around and wrote a list about him!'.
once we got THAT sussed, the anxiety really started to drop away and he started doing heaps better at school.

i know for our family a diagnosis has been a great thing, but i also know that for many people (my ex included) it's a negative thing, so while i think it's helped us understand a lot about how he ticks.. not everyone sees it as a great tool, lots of people still think ADHD is just an excuse for crappy parenting and that you can beat some sense into them and that they just lack respect and they're all doomed to be criminals

See I can relate DD to alot of the stuff you are saying, but not on the extreme side of packing tantrums to wake the dead

I think if she does have ADD, it is on the mild side of it and that is why it has been missed.

But when ever we have had issues with DD, we have been accused of not being hard enough on her. Which reall makes DH and I

If it turns out to be nothing and she just needs some help with her anxiety, then that is okay with us.

It is funny you should mention the being overwhelmed, as we get this feeling with DD when ever we go to a mall.
Especially since over here the malls are so huge.
Literally as soon as we enter, she gets argumentative, doesn't want to listen to anything that is asked of her, gets all bossy and agressive.Wants to just run around and is totally oblivious to anybody else around her. I just hate taking her to go shopping on a saturday.

But then so much of the stuff we experience could be just put down to a strong willed child

I didn't know. DS was a first child, which didn't help. So although I knew he was quite different from other kids in some ways, I didn't really know the extent of it (now I have DD, I can see that at 10 months even she is behaving quite differently - eg DS didn't 'copy' actions in the same way, we've actually had to babysafe for her etc etc). So it wasn't til someone at our playcentre said they thought DS had some issues that we got him checked out. Still wasn't convinced even after a prelim diagnosis of high functioning classic autism. But as time has gone on, and my understanding has deepened of all the little ways that autism can manifest in an otherwise high functioning child I have to say that it is the right diagnosis.

So - it sounds like your DD could have some sensory issues (eg crowded or noisy places, perhaps lighting?). My boy has some of these, but none of them were exactly red flags, IYKWIM - he is really undersensitive to touch, but that isn't so easy to spot unless you're looking for it. He never knows if he is hot or cold, likes to lie on the floor, be hugged tight etc. He has special interests - cars and trains - but hardly unusual for a child his age.

He melted down about not being allowed to buy a toy in the supermarket last week. Every other shopper was watching thinking what bad parenting, but I know we have never ever ever bought him a toy at the supermarket. His behaviour often looks like he is naughty or strongwilled or badly parented (he loves the feel of throwing gravel or barkchip for instance...very very very hard to stop him!).

I would recommend that you get your daughter assessed so that if she needs help to cope with some situations she will get it. It isn't an easy road, but better to err on the side of caution I would have thought, and make sure she gets help if she needs it.

i think the biggest thing i've learned about ADHD - or even aspergers, is that it never ever looks the same in all children. so my ds is impulsive/inattentive, he does things without thinking and he finds it difficult to focus. he is hyper as well but not to the same extent as the other two. but then on the other hand you have the kids who are ADHD but spend all day sitting still staring out the window - i was one of those kids in school and my ds reminds me a LOT of me when i was his age, so i have a fair idea where he gets it all from

i totally hear you on the bad parent thing. i dread taking DS places sometimes - sometimes he is fine but lots of the time, it is just the excitement of going somewhere, and there are people! and things! and so much stuff going on! and he just can't focus on being, you know, well behaved, and it all goes to his head, and he leaps around like a crazy thing, or touches everything, or runs into people (that personal space/no concept of what his body is doing at any given time thing again), he can't listen and follow instructions.. drives me nutty. and then at the other end of the scale, there are the times when he is overly helpful, i mean, the other day i was walking all three of them along next to a busy road, and my middle kid fell over and started screaming (as you do at 3pm when you're 3 and you need a sleep ), so i let my youngest go and say to oldest ds 'make sure he doesn't run onto the road and hold his hand'. now, i dunno, i would expect anyone else in the world to stand next to him calmly and hold his hand while i sort out the middle kid, but nooo, the first thing that ds does is bend over and get all up in youngest kids face to talk to him, then he gives him this big tight smothery hug, so now i have two screaming kids, one of whom is trying to bolt off to get away from the kid who is supposed to be watching him, and ds is trying to.. what, tickle him? chase him into traffic? I HAVE NO IDEA. i mean i can see his good intentions but it isn't like he hasn't been told four million times; just be calm, don't get so close to their faces, stop squeezing them because you know they friggin hate that.... etc etc. never sinks in.

See the more I read the more it makes sense.

I guess it is amazing how much we just accommodate them, because as parents we just modify to each child as they are all different.

It is not till others are around DD that I think, why can't they deal with her like we do. Then I start thinking, well why is that?

DD is very affectionate and doesn't ask just presumes everyone wants her love. Then gets so offended when they don't want her love.
She interuppts conversations, she thinks what she has to say is what everyone wants to hear. We have to remind her often that in a conversation one person talks, the other listens, then the other gets a turn to talk while the first person listens. As she will over talk people often.

Also when she get excited, it is like the emotion is to much for her to deal with, like a shot of adrenalin or something. She gets hyper and looks like a bomb about to go off.

But then she can have quiet moments too. As I give her tv time when she comes home from school. Just to wind down as she is shattered.And she can watch tv for an hour or two quiet happily.

Last week we had a pushing incident at school. Where she pushed a girl in the toilets. DD said she was just trying to make her dry her hands after going to the toilets. I told her it is not her job to make someone do anything.

There was also an incident on the mat at school where she was sitting on other children and they didn't like it.

It sounds like you have alot of patience Teacup, and you are being a wonderful mum. But what do you do on the bad days?

BritishLass, must be hard when everyone is looking at you?
What help have you been given since your son was assessed?

For you all, what do they do as part of the assessement process?

hah, i do nto feel like it. we tend to go through good patches, where everything is alright and easy to deal with, then bad patches, where his behavior is worse and i am stressed about things and so i shout a lot and stamp my feet and lecture for ages even though i know it is pointless.

the conversation thing, omg, i have spent YEARS trying to teach my ex how to ahve a conversation, and ds talks the same way - i open my mouth and start talking and he talks over the top of me, it drives me mental as it is SO RUDE. at the point now where if the ex rings up i say 'i am only going to have a conversation with you if i talk and then you talk and then i talk and you talk and no one interrupts and if we cannot do that then we need to get a third party to mediate for us'. but in ds's case i think that is a learned thing rather than a personality thing, thats just what has been modelled to him by his dad.

i think one of the things that people are most surprised by is that they are able to be still sometimes - ds will read for HOURS in one place - everyone went 'oh well he can't be ADHD because he sits still to read and use the computer' - but it's that they have no probs focussing on things that they WANT to do - but is ten times more difficult for them to concentrate on things that they don't want to.

for us, we and the teacher filled out the connors rating scale - i didn't give one to my ex as he believes that ds's behaviour is normal and the world should accomodate to fit it etc and he doesn't believe in ADHD - and they went back to the paed who did his thing and announced that ds had ADHD.
really though, i wasn't that happy with that, i was happier to hear it from the psych who assessed him for something else - she actually spent one on one time with him for a few hours, watched him etc - she said he was definitely ADHD

For us the biggest thing we fear against her being labeled is that they want to put her on medication. Where we totally don't want to medicate her. We just want to get her some help at school.
I guess it is becasue that is the first thing you think of with kids with ADD or ADHD. I remember friends of ours saying there kids had it, and we were like oh, there is nothing wrong with your kids apart from too much coke and lollies. But now I feel so bad as I just was totally not informed or had no REAL idea what ADHD was.
Maybe this my karma.

But either way she is going to get a label, and I guess the choice is between a 'naughty' kid or one with 'ADD' if that is what it turns out to be. As we have no idea with the difference it between all the different disorders out there.

Well DD had a bad day today.
Poor teacher. You always feel like the guilty one, when you get called into your child's room after school for 'a talk'.

Since her pushing incident last week. She has a had little yellow book. Which gives a U = unsatisfactory, S = satisfactory and P = pleasing.
She has been doing so well all week.

Her teacher said the first part of the day was awesome.
But afternoon was a right off. Whingy, tatle taleing, argumentative, in kids faces, during chapel fidgeting, not sitting down, walking up and down the aisle, shouting out.
I know the why, as when DD gets tired, she gets hyper and you just can't do anything with her.
Not that by any means does it excuse her behaviour.
Teacher just asked that I had a talk with her over the weekend.
Tried on the walk home, but she was in denial, claiming she did nothing wrong. So I decided to leave it, let her cool down and chill out at home till DH comes home, then have a talk with DH and then talk with her about it.
This is classic for her, over tiredness = hyper and over the top behaviour.
I was going to pick her up early thursday and friday this week, as I know this is usual for her. But she had been having such a good week I thought she would be fine.

Only one more week of school and a half day on friday.

Went to see GP today and he just asked whether I wanted to go private or public and who did I want to see. I was like, I don't know as we are new to the country. He gave me the names and number of 3 private peadiatricians to ring and find out cost and ask any other questions. Then go back to GP with my DD and he will write me out a referral.

oh pd, your poor DD. It sounds like the school could really do with some help with avoiding these situations with your DD plus ideas on what to do when it is too late and she is being a pain in chapel! I'm sure she doesn't *want* to be badly behaved.

We could talk to my son about his behaviour til he is blue in the face, but there are much more practical things we can do (eg he needs to be allowed to fidget in order to be able to concentrate, but there are ways and means to help a child do that that won't disrupt anyone else). He also needs to have access to some of the activities that calm him when he gets overstimulated. And we have to accept that he is impulsive and just keep working on that...

I don't think you should let a fear of medication stop you getting your DD assessed. I'm no doctor and only have your description of your DD to go on, but it sounds to me like she could just as easily be ASD as ADD, in which case they are more likely to recommend other therapies than drugs (like occupational therapy to work on ways to help her concentrate, SLT to help her understand about social/communication issues like turntaking in conversation, personal space etc).

And even if they did recommend medication you don't have to use it! But what they will also do is be able to figure out if she has sensory issues or needs to learn about social or communication issues in a different way to really 'get' them.

Thanks BritishLass.
What is ASD and SLT?

ASD= Autistic spectrum Disorder
SLT= Speech language therapy.

I really feel for you at the moment PD Its hard to take that first step I know cause we just recently got a diagnosis for DS#1.. After knowing for quite some time that he's a little different. Its so noticable more so these days as his younger brother grows. Go with your gut feeling, mummies instincts are a powerful tool.

For us, getting the diagnosis of ADHD was not a huge surprise. As far as management of the condition goes you have to do what you think is best for your family. I'm happy to report that my DS has just completed his 3rd week of therapy and although its early days we have had some promising results. The feedback from school is extremely positive and even the other kids in his class are including him more as he plays in a more controled manner without outbursts and inappropriate tantrums towards others.

Thanks LCM.
It is great that you are getting more support for DS and he is settling and making friends now. It must make you and him feel better. Even though I am beginning to understand that it is just the beginning.

I am just so shocked at so much of DD behaviour that we just accepted as being her. And it has been more what others have viewed of her that has made us more aware.
I mean we can manager her and accomodate for her at home, but it hasn't been till she has been at school and doing extra after school activities that we have noticed more and more.

I mean I think back to how full on she has always been and just thought it was because DH and I were little rats as kids.

I can totally relate to all of this PD. Also I guess we sheltered Liam alot from certain situations which we knew were places we're he would standout like malls,playgrounds etc. We didn't know any differently, him being our first child. I blamed myself for a lot of his behaviour I felt like I failed him.