Just wondering from all you teachers out there.
DS 6.5 in a yr 1 class, has been on reading level 18 for quite some time.
I can see that it has lots of new words, long stories etc etc.
He started L18 sometime last term, early or mid term.

DH went into school today to tell teacher DS was off sick, and to grab a reading book for him. He asked when they would be moving onto a new level, and teacher replied they wouldn't, it was a short term, they would all stay on that till the end of the year. (the 3 in the class on that level)
Combine this with her telling me last week that the better readers (L18) were helping those on L5 with there reading as a means to cementing reading skills.
AND then telling DH that if they went on any further at this stage, next years teacher wouldn't have anything for them.

I don't want to over react, but really does it sound right?
How long should they normally be on L18 for?

We are already a bit sensitive about him still being in a yr1 class as it is (as his birthday falls in April, and March is ou cut off). He has been at school for a year longer than some of his class mates.
Can you tell me what your year 2's are reading, and what you would be doing with a student in this position.
And he doesn't struggle to read the L18's (or turquoise).
Thanks for any advice

I'm not a primary teacher, but that comment if they went in any further this year then their teacher next year would have nothing for them screams out at me!
That is ridiculous.

When was he last tested?

My son is 6 and in a year 1/2 class (he is year 1). He is in the top group and is reading gold, and reads journals. Earlier in the year when only one child was on that level the teacher still catered for her. I personally don't think a teacher should hold a child back because the others haven't caught up!

In saying that, often children decode really well but their comprehension isn't quite up there. At least that is why my son's teacher has said.

I would ask for him to be tested again if it's been a while.

DS is Y2 and just turned 7. He is at the bottom of the class (maybe a couple of esol kids below him) and is on level 16. So I'd say your DS is doing fine at 18 in Y1 and he'll probably move on next year (there's plenty for him to move onto). My understanding is that at this level (not age but reading level) they are do a lot of consolidating and developing their comprehension (eg retelling complex story in own words etc).

I honestly would not worry. It's such a short term this year that unless he was super bored and reading it really easily there's really no reason to move him on. You could get some easy chapter books like Zac Powers "test drive" etc for him to read over the holidays and keep up his reading so he's ready for term 1 next year.

That is nuts. There is a boy in my daughters class (Y1/2 class) and he goes over to a full Y2 class for reading as he is onto Journals, they don't hold him back at all. All year he has always been at the top on his own, they have never held him back.

Different teachers think different things though I suppose as end of term 2 DD's teacher left (she is Y1) and DD was reading orange and I was told that she will probably mill around there for the rest of the year. New teacher comes in, tests early/mid term 3 and DD goes up to silver, skipping the other ones.... and her current teacher said "She was reading way above orange when I came in"

I would push it and make them test him...

Good luck

From L18 there is still plenty of room for him to move to next year. DD is in Yr 1 and is 7 (Yr 1 here is like Yr 2 in NZ) and she is a really good reader. I'm always confronted with teachers saying they have nothing left for her to read which I find frustrating, because that basically leaves it to me to find suitable material at the library for her. The books in DDs class go to a level 28 I think, and we're yet to see what they can offer after that. I would probably leave it for this term and see what his new teacher offers in 2012. If you want to give him something different I would aim to get him reading widely so things like magazine or newspaper articles, non fiction, and poetry.

If I was you, I would make an appointment with the teacher to discuss it. Don't let them fob you off with a short conversation; ask for a proper appointment to discuss his reading.

At that meeting, ask to see his latest running record. There should be one from the last 4 weeks. (If there isn't, ask the teacher for an explanation. If there's no adequate explanation, something isn't right.) Ask the teacher to explain the running record to you. Children are ready to move up to the next level when they're reading somewhere between 90 and 95% accurately. There are comprehension questions at the end of the reading part, so ask the teacher to explain how he's doing on those too. Discussing the running record allows you to focus on any particular problems, and if the teacher thinks there is a problem which doesn't come out in the running record it gives the teacher a chance to explain it.

If the running record is all fine, but he still hasn't been moved up, I would express some concern about that.
If the reading itself is fine, but there is a problem with the comprehension, the Ministry of Education guidelines say that is not a good reason to keep a child at a lower level. Instead, the teacher should be organising a programme which concentrates on the comprehension aspects of reading. You don't get better at comprehension by spending more time practising easy books - you get better at comprehension by doing the sorts of exercises that make you better at comprehension.

Politely remind the teacher than he has been at school a long time. Sometimes they forget some kids are a lot older than others.

Keep everything polite and just explain that you are interested in knowing more about how the teacher runs her reading programme. If the problem is that the teacher is coasting, hopefully your showing a bit of interest will serve as a bit of a wake-up call. Or, it could be that there is actually a good reason for spending more time at that level. If there is, though, the teacher should still have a plan for how to improve whatever the problem is. Ask her what it is. (Then if she doesn't have one, she might do something about it.)

I have to admit that if a teacher told me that she had no good reason for keeping a child at a level other than she didn't like to move them beyond it at that year level, I would regard that as an unacceptable attitude, and would tell them so.

Lol, that is a bit long. Can you tell I've been there before?

LOL Arete, that is good info about the running record.

We did create a bit of a fuss at the start of the year, so its not like she doesn't know that we are watching like hawks. But it was just such a random comment to make about leaving the teacher next year something to go on with...(specially when she knows I am precious about it)
I asked DH was she serious, and he replied well yeah.

Also, he finished at the end of last year on 12, so is it acceptable to only have moved onto 18 in a full year?

His comprehension is and has always been miles above his age.
Its one of the things that has always stood out, so I know its not that...

Also, he can go to bed and read Captain underpants by himself....he may not get ALL the words, but he can read most of it.

My son is 6 and a feb baby so almost the same age - hes reading at level 24 and a very good reader.

There are quite a few in his class on this level and they move them along when ready. They dont help the kids that are reading at lower levels - but do start to concentrate on comprehesion rather than just reading.

1. bollocks to the next teacher having nothing for them. That is simply not ture.
2. Helping others to keep them busy? (or instead of their own learning?) No way. By all means have buddy or peer reading, but wihtin a reading programme during free reading taskboard activities, NOT instead.

That said, at this stage, I would not be testing a child again before the end of the year - the end year esting has been done, and clases etc put together around that information.

However, I would expect that a running record be completed either in thelast 2 weeks of last term OR the first two weeks of this term, depending on when they close off the data entry for the kids, rpeorting etc.

If there is a running record that supports him being at that level from those weeks, then that really is fine - children do drop back on avverage a couple of levels over the school holidays, so pushing them forward this close to the holidays is doing noone any favours.

if the last running record was done in the first couple of weeks of last term, then IMO that isn't good enough, I may still not push for him to go up, unless you and Dh feel that he is finding it all very easy at that stage and at isk of getting bored in the last few weeks. I would instead make sure that the new teacher knows that he was on the level and not tested since whenever wihtin a couple of weeks of starting back next year.

As to how long they should be on a level? No such thing, every child is different. i would just hope that she isn't one of those teachers who seem to only test when the whole group is ready to move, as opposed to teaching the individual child like you should! I h ave certainly had children stay on the levels above 16/orange for a longer period of time as the stories do bcome more complex in terms of comprehension, pushing them on simply because they can read the words easily does more harm than good (when you have children pushed through into higher levels based solely on decoding skills, as they get to more involved texts it is so hard for the kids to learn the basics of retelling and responding to texts when so much more is happening).

You explain it so well.



Definitely!

As a year one teacher, I wouldn't be pushing him to a higher level at this time of year, but I would certainly be 'taking him wide' with regard to comprehension and genre (non fiction, reports, etc) and consolidating his learning.

Hope she's not one of those naughty teachers that starts to give them colouring in or xmas stuff in November because she thinks it all over!

Oh liljay and Felicis.. why can't we find a teacher like you guys? We've had colouring in and DVDs already and it's the first week of November.

Thank you, you are making me feel better.
I don't think she is "one of those teachers" and normally I wouldn't question her, but this is one of those times I needed some ideas from you teachers as to what her thinking is.

I will follow up with his running record and see what that says.

Cheers everyone.

how ridiculous..i can understand staying on a reading level for other skills i.e acquiring words, understandng of reading, grammer etc etc....but bcos there wouldnt be anything for them to do next year pfffft what a load of nonsense.
my DS#1 is a really good reader, he has quite a veracious appetite and his teacher this year is AWESOME, she helps him choose library books and purposely picks ones out that she knows he will enjoy...and 1 to challenge him (he has just turned 8 a few days ago and reads a cpl of chapter books in a week...has quite adultish/select interests etc) she's an author and riiiight into literature education etc so couldnt have got a better teacher for him....but yeah.
i would be making a meeting and asking things like okay what is the next goal for DS, how do we help him achieve it, where is he now, and what is the next step etc etc.
i dont really follow reading levels tooo closely...they are almost meaningless really - if a child is progressing what they are given to read should be progressing too, #1 got stuck on 1 level for about 6/7months(talk about motivation killer as it was an early level too...only so many of those books you can listen to in a lifetime )...then reading clicked and he flew through the rest of the levels and past journals and other readers in a matter of months.. now they seem to read for content/words/new concepts as opposed to reading level.
i guess just keep onto the teacher and his progress yourself...make sure you use your public library regularly so if he's not always getting progress at school he is at home.

arrrk my typing/spelling is terrible at the mo...can you tell im on day 3 of 3exams in a row lol

Yeah. Already. I checked her homework book and about half of it for the last bit of term 3 and term 4 hasn't been marked. And I know she hands it in, because I go with her to do it. Even worse, I checked a maths sheet with multiplication on it and it was almost all wrong and hadn't been marked. We did them again together but clearly DD doesn't understand the concept. I wish this lady had retired last year instead of squeezing out one more really ineffective year.

My homework motto is - if I'm not going to mark it then it wasn't worth you doing it... what is the point??? Busy work? And it should never be things they can't do, but practise/revisited topics IYKWIM?





Try teaching/reading with those books when you have 18 kids at level 1 () does my head in lol, roll on next year when I go back to the slightly older kids. NE teachers should all be paid more! They are machines!

yes they are - it is exhausting work!

Just to bump this up...I went along to the meeting, and its a school policy that they won't give students in Yr one reading books over Level 18, and on speaking to another mother level 24 in year 2.

So is this a normal school policy? I am really starting to dislike my school policies, and am second guessing now whether this school has the kids best interests at heart, or just does things to suit the staff.

So my child who has been at school for 7 terms, is not able to learn anymore than a child thats been there for 4. However, if he had been born 22 days earlier, it wouldn't be a problem!!!

I don't want to rock the boat for my childs sake, but should I?

Yeah, you should. Big time.

Yes i would............. that is crazy, what if your child started school reading at level 24?? what would they do for the next 2 years?

No way, not normal AT all. How is that catering for a child's needs? If a child is tested at reading level 19, they should be reading level 19!

There is no way making a child read below where they are at is at the best interest for the child.

By all means, keep a child at level 18 if they GENUINELY have stuff to learn at that level, otherwise...NO! How is that going to help them learn?

I am beyond flabbergasted at this!

OMG, I just realised - so he will only be allowed to go up 6 levels in year 2 before he will be stuck again?

What a stupid idea!

Yes felicis....

Who do I start with then? I had the discussion with last years teacher, do I go to the principle next then to discuss this particular policy?

I would start off by talking to this years teacher - give it a few weeks into the term to let her get testing etc done first (she could be an entirely different kettle of fish - and lastyears teacher could've just bn blowing smoke about it being a 'school wide policy' )
if it REALLY is a policy - I would have to ask what sort of school would be so willing to stifle ability and progress???
doesn't sound like a normal policy AT ALL, and a really really stupid one - If this years teacher is no better/more forward after talking to her, I would go straight to the principal to get her reasoning behind the policy.
and would be looking around at other schools if thats the case as who knows how many other stupid policies they have.

I would see what this teacher says as well. I have had discussions with the teachers before about ability to read vs. ability to comprehend. Sometimes I feel the child is put up in reading level because they can read, but they can't comprehend. I agreed to have my kids kept at a reading level specifically so they can work on comprehension. Make sense?

Yep I understand the comprehension side. But to be kept on the same level for nearly 2 terms, if he had comprehension problems, he shouldn't have reached this level you know? Its a school rule no more, no less.

I know its a school wide policy and that this years teacher will be no different, because I spoke to another mum whose kid had his this years teacher last year for yr 2, whose daughter was not allowed past level 24 for reading.

The teacher suggested the library for extension reading.

Is it worth uprooting the kids from friends and a nice school for this? I don't know that it is?
An you know teachers, they all cover each other, and tell you what they want you to know, no more, no less...so I find it impossible to get anywhere.

If I wait a couple of weeks and ask for a copy of his reading running record, would that tell me more? I feel like I need someone impartial to discuss whats best for my child with myself and my school, and surely it shouldn't be this hard?

I had a friend whose daughter started school in Australia and they had exactly the same policy. It frustrated her no end as well as her daughter was reading really well and wasn't allowed to move up levels.

However, it hasn't held her daughter back at all - she is still a really good reader going in to year 5.

I guess you may have trouble getting the school to change their policy for one child. I would be unhappy with it as well but would weigh up everything else the school does and see if it really is a deal breaker for you.

Honestly, by the time kids get to year 3/4, reading changes so much at school anyway. My kids from year 3 just read their own chapter books (both read the Harry Potter series in year 3) so reading levels really did mean absolutely nothing by then.

Wow that is such a stupid policy!!!! I cant believe any school would adopt something like that, how does it benefit any child who is skilled at reading?

My DS was up to level 25 by the end of the year last year (yr 1) He'd reached level 17 by the end of term one - could you imagine if they had held him back for the rest of the year! He'd have become so bored and disinterested in books at school and become disruptive.

As a parent I would be pretty annoyed that my child was being fit within "their" box rather than "his" box.

My worry about the school is that this policy makes it seem like they don't deal with extending kids at all, and my concern would be that that will go far beyond reading and into other areas. There is simply no good reason for such a stupid policy, and what other stupid policies do they have?
I would seriously look at other schools.

That's CRAZY. That kind of thing makes me so mad. My DD started school on a level 11 and was up around 22 by the end of NE. Last year she was reading her own books. What is a fluent reader meant to do for a whole year if they aren't allowed to go up to the next level?

I would make an appointment with the team leader/head of the junior school to discuss it.

I don't get why they're holding kids back?

You could do what we did last year - we didn't read any school readers. She had read the highest level they had (I think a 28) the year before and I wasn't going to make her read them again for a whole year. So I said to the teacher that DD would be getting her own reading from home and the library and I'd write down what she was reading on her sheet so the teacher could be in the loop. As it turns out the teacher didn't check the sheet or mention it to me again after that first meeting so I didn't end up bothering with writing it down. I let her read the fiction books she wanted to but also added in magazine and newspaper articles and some non fiction books we used for projects at home.

I suspect this year will be the same but I'm really hoping we have a teacher who might find some interesting reading material for DD.

It is worth making an appointment with the principal, to discuss, imo. It is not standard teaching practice, and it is not supported by any of the Ministry of Education advice on teaching children to read. Nor is it supported by any research. So it's worth asking why they have the policy, and what research they have which supports having a policy which goes against Ministry of Education advice.

Whether it's worth switching schools is going to depend a bit. If it was the only thing that was hacking me off, I might not bother - I'd just read loads of stuff at home. But with an attitude linke that, it's unlikely to be the only thing.

Who was at the meeting where "the policy" was discussed? If our school had a similar policy I would be challenging the reasons why, if it was purely to benefit them then I would actually consider moving schools, as thats just the sort of thing that makes a bad school IMO. If they seemed to have valid reasons in the childs interest (would be interesting to know) I would be talking to other education experts to see what their take on it would be, I can't imagine how it would help a child to not let them progress at their own pace.

What a weird policy.

Yes, this, totally.

I am a teacher....and think this is a dumb school policy. The schools I have taught in have extra reading material available for children who need extending.

I have the opposite problem with my eldest - reading at Yr1 level at the end of yr 3 - but it all comes under the same policy guidelines according to the MOE website.

I would read the school's charter and the school's policies around the curriculum. I would then compare what is happening with your child and the policies they have set, then see the principal. If they aren't willing to meet the learning needs of your child and you can enroll in another school I'd go for it (after checking the new school's policies first)

This is what the MOE says - and from what you say they are not developing and implementing learning strategies to meet needs (see below)

NAG 1

Each board of trustees is required to foster student achievement by providing teaching and learning programmes which incorporate The National Curriculum as expressed in The New Zealand Curriculum 2007 or Te Marautanga o Aotearoa.

Each board, through the principal and staff, is required to:

(a) develop and implement teaching and learning programmes:

to provide all students in years 1-10 with opportunities to achieve for success in all areas of the National Curriculum;
giving priority to student achievement in literacy and numeracy, especially in years 1-8;
giving priority to regular quality physical activity that develops movement skills for all students, especially in years 1-6.

(b) through a range of assessment practices, gather information that is sufficiently comprehensive to enable the progress and achievement of students to be evaluated; giving priority first to:

student achievement in literacy and numeracy, especially in years 1-8; and then to
breadth and depth of learning related to the needs, abilities and interests of students, the nature of the school's curriculum, and the scope of The National Curriculum as expressed in The New Zealand Curriculum or Te Marautanga o Aotearoa;

(c) on the basis of good quality assessment information, identify students and groups of students:

who are not achieving;
who are at risk of not achieving;
who have special needs (including gifted and talented students); and
aspects of the curriculum which require particular attention;

(d) develop and implement teaching and learning strategies to address the needs of students and aspects of the curriculum identified in (c) above;

(e) in consultation with the school's Māori community, develop and make known to the school's community policies, plans and targets for improving the achievement of Māori students; and

(f) provide appropriate career education and guidance for all students in year 7 and above, with a particular emphasis on specific career guidance for those students who have been identified by the school as being at risk of leaving school unprepared for the transition to the workplace or further education/training.

If you are generally happy with the school but they just have this one stupid policy, I would as others say, give it a couple of weeks for things to settle, then raise it with the teacher. If you get no joy there speak to the syndicate head. If this is a policy, speak to the principal and ask on what grounds they have made this 'policy' and what evidence have they based this decision on. Then if you get nowhere with the principal, don't forget you can raise issues like this with the board of trustees - they are there to ensure the school is managed in a way that is in the children's best interests.

IME 'policy' is often in the best interest of the majority of kids, and as soon as your kids falls outside the range of 'normal' they are no longer catered to by the main stream policy. So you are possibly going to be the only parent with a problem with this policy for a child in your DSs class. Don't feel like you are causing trouble by a staunch advocate for your child - no one else is going to do it.

I thought I had better update on this, as we did go in and have a discussion with the Principle, DP and teacher.

The teacher did a running record on him the morning of our meeting, at a level above what he was on, and said high fluency, but when I asked him to retell me the story he said "it was about a boy called Matt who built a hut" and when she asked him, was there anything else you can tell me about the story, he said "no"... LOL...But she said "if this was a story about animals on an African plain for eg, he would go on for hours. But that he needs to be able to retell all sorts of types of information".

We went into big long discussions about "going wide" within a level, and that the only teaching to x level for a specific year range is based on a lot of expert opinion/research.

On the whole, we came away happy that his teacher was extending kids that needed it in lots of ways.

Less than a month after though, he has jumped 2 levels all of a sudden...gone from 18-21, so comprehension can't have been too much of an issue?!