I have a Parenting Order (PO) now, it says I have DS1 for one week of every school holidays which week to be sorted out one month prior.
Well DEX never answered the phone or returned texts or emails if they were about DS1 coming to stay with me- so the one month prior lapsed.

In the weekend I was up there and spoke to him about it. He said "He doesn't have to come if he doesn't want to" DS1 said "Dad and I are going to do stuff so I'm not coming"
DEX thinks that DS1 not wanting to over rules the PO.

I let DEX know that the PO can be enforced by the Police. But as its a floating week I think I need to wait to the start of next week before I get the Police involved.
Do I really want to do that to my son?

But there is another issue, DS2 never wants to go to DEX's place so I'm wondering if DS1 gets to choose should DS2 be able to choose as well?
I have applied to the Family Court for counseling to discuss.

But I'm thinking, do I really want to start all over again? Its taken a year to get this Parenting Order and the first stumble in it, less than 6 weeks since it was empowered, its not working.

Let me know what you think I should do, should have added an "Other" option.

Oh Clem, what a shitty sitiation

The way I see it - and obviously I may be well wrong as I am not living it - is these are the things to consider.

-If you let DS1 'choose'this time, it may well be a few years before you get him back - as in until he is an adult and realises what was going on for real. From what you have said, that might be the best thing for the other 2, in that it sounds quite unsettled when he has his visits, but of course it might be the last thing on earth YOU want to happen. It might also mean that things go bad for him in terms of the awesome role model he has in his father :sarc:
-If you force it, in terms of the police, it could go two ways. I imagine that DS1 will be grrr about it no matter what, BUT it will show a couple of things - that you are prepared to fight for your son even if he doesn't appreciate it right now (he will eventually), and 2.. that you are prepared to continue standing up to DH, and not let him get away with things just because he thinks he is all that and a tin of beans.
-leaving it htese holidays and working on the next - once you give in once, you have less support to enforce things next time. It will make it harder, not easier (unless DS1 has some sort of ephipany of course - not likely I imagine).

Anyway, those are the things I would think about. TBH you are caughtbetween a rock and a hard place, and it sucks that this happens in so many cases

Clem my 2cents worth... from my experience.

The police won't necessarily enforce the first break in the PO, they generally only step in after it's a repeated offence, sounds absolutely daft to me as in what's the point, but it's a bit like noise control really, you need to complain a few times before the stereo will be taken.

So I'd be saying, I will be picking up DS at this time on this day as per our PO. If you break this I will enforce it. Try to scare him into submission and if you get there and DS is not there, then you can ring the cops and go from there.

Go and talk to the local police too, they may be able to direct you better, but as you're in the court process, they generally won't touch you. That's my experience anyway, but I'm in the big city where they don't have the resources or time

HTH

Oh Hun

TBH i think you need to make sure you continue to uphold your end of the PO, it means in theory the courts are more likely to listen to you.

I would fight to get your son this holidays though, call the police and make a complaint, even if they can't do anything this time they will have a record of it for future.

I'm with Kat. I'd fight to get your son this hols. It'll help you in court in future, and eventually (like Fel says) your son will see the good in what you did. Good luck Clem.

Interestingly I went into the police station and they said they will NOT enforce it, that I should go back to the courts.

I'm a bit WTF, what was the point, the whole point of an Order was that it could be enforced I thought.

They suggested I drive to Qtown and ask to take DS1 and if he doesn't hand him over then go back to the courts for breach of parenting order sanctions.

The inadequacy of the whole support and decision making process around family stuff threatens to overwhelm me at times. They can't even get their act together to support relatively normal situations, no wonder so many kids slip through the cracks.

To get the Police to enforce a parenting order you will most likely need to apply for a warrant to enforce, you make the application on a without notice basis and it will be dealt with by a Judge urgently. If the Judge grants it then the Police will collect the warrant directly from the Court and collect the child from the parent. Although since your son is a little older a warrant might not be the best option and it could be requested for L4C to try a bit of negotiation. Does your nearest court have Family Court Co-ordinators, if you are self representing they should help by providing you with the appropriate paperwork.

Lawyer 4 Child is being an arse! He sent me an email saying that as an Order is in place his role is now obsolete and he has nothing to do with us anymore unless the court requests him too.

I sent DEX a text asking what time he was meeting me at the appointed place with DS1 and he replied "As you have started proceedings to change things he doesn't have to until they are sorted"
I replied "Until the proceedings change things the Order remains in place and enforceable - therefore sanctions can be made against you if you don't comply"

I then was really angry so sent another text.

"it make you look like an idiot when you sign an agreement and then tell the judge you agree to it and then a few weeks later don't comply... but I guess you are used to that"

If you don't know our history, DEX signed an agreement allowing me to relocate the kids then when our agreement got to the court to be made into an Order he claimed he had no idea what he signed (And initialed changes) even though it clearly states what it is. His lawyer was extremely embarrassed when he saw the document! The judge made a slapping hand against head style movement (Slightly disguised as a forehead rub) and my lawyer said to me "Is he really that thick or just putting it on?"

Yeah L4C can't get involved unless they are requested to by the court, what could happen if you apply for a warrant to enforce it that the judge then directs L4C to try and negotiate. It sounds like you are going to have onging issues with your DEX, he is wrong by the way, the order is still in force whether on not there is anything else happening in court and he should be complying with it.

Of course he is wrong

I have an appointment at 2pm today for counseling to try and discuss the matter. Apart from the fact DEX refuses to attend with me and probably won't attend until court ordered to. I think we have run out of counselors in Qtown who will see him

I knew I should have stayed with him and poisoned him

At least you can joke about it...

When I told him I was leaving I said "I could stay, but every time you are late home I think more about the life insurance money than you being hurt/dead and actually feel disappointed when you do turn up- so I think its best to leave before I lose all respect for my self"

Well I went to see the court appointed counselor and she was absolutely useless!!!! She said things like..
Oh thats no good... what are you going to do?
Did you know there are sanctions for not complying with an order?
Can you fill in this form, I need it to be in your words what you want counseling to achieve... (ummm its your job to file a report not mine)

She was concerned that DS1 is only 13 and has half an hour home alone between school bus dropping him of and DEX finishing work - he needs to be 14 before he can be home alone. I have no concerns about leaving a 13 year old for 30 mins- that isn't an actual issue to me and I think it would be petty to try and act on that.

Gah, what a PITA but so not surprised that they aren't helpful.

Re the home alone thing, I so agree with you, but I would still act really concerned, just in case she does the 'oh father is breaking the law, but mother said she wasn't concerned by this' line to anyone. When the 'father chooses to break the law by having child unsupervised, mother was concerned when informed' line - sounds so much better for you, even if an act, lol.

Well DEX went to see the court appointed counselor on his side. And has suggested the parenting order be changed to have less time with me...
He also said DS1 was deeply traumatized by spending time with me- that I don't treat him well and ordered him out of the house at night.

There was an incident, about 4pm and it was raining where he lost the plot over losing a playstation game and lashed out and I told him if he was going to act like that he could go to Nan and Granddad's - next door - or if he wanted to stay here he could calm down.... thats the only thing I can think of that could be remotely interpreted as ordering him out of the house.

The useless as counsellor said he needs to feel special at my place to want to come, that maybe I should spoil him more. But I feel thats not fair on the other kids - why should they be subjected to violent behaviour and DS1 be spoilt over it? I put this to the counselor and she said I had a choice, either my son doesn't want to see me or I make it good for him to come and see me.
I saved up and made things special last time he came down, pizza, bowling, go carts, but it was too traumatic for him as he wasn't spoilt enough.

I am bordering on making the decision to not have contact with DS1 to give up trying as I can't pander to him when I feel he needs discipline and boundaries in his life.
I am not super strict, DS2's friends tell me I'm a relaxed and fun parent, but I won't tolerate him being violent and rude towards myself and his siblings. How am I supposed to teach him this behaviour is unacceptable?

How old is he Clem?

13

Personally i wouldn't be making it MORE special than you already do, i KNOW how much you plan and make things fun for him too.

Sounds like things are being well blown out of proportion on his part (not unusual in kids that age though)

No advice on what you should do though

Do the courts provide counselling for kids? - what about asking for him to see a counsellor ? (without parents present to influence what he says)