So Flynn is still waking alot at night and he has been on 20mg of losec for over two months now and on neocate for 6 weeks. During the day it comes and goes and can be during a feed or straight after. At night he still wakes every 1.5 hrs and its not to feed. He sqirms the whole time he is in my arms ...legs pulled up and back arching. And every morning around the same time between 3-4am he wakes up an I can not get him back into bed becasue of the pain. I try and try to bring the wind up...Ive tried gripe water....infacol...colic powder..and merbentyl. He now bring in to bed with me as I was just getting to tired getting up every ten mins too him. So I lie with him next to me with his head propped up on my arm so that when he wakes I can quickly sit up and deal with him and resettle without having to get out of bed. This has been going on for two weeks now and not to sure what to do about it. Is it just really bad wind or is it the reflux? His breathing is terrible aswell. Everyone I meet comments oh he has the snuffles really bad.... he has been like that since two weeks and Im sure it doesnt help his feeding or sleeping. We see the paed again this week but just needed to vent and see if anyone had any miracle suggestions?

No miracles here I'm afraid!
Hope the paed can help though.

Ditto , miss has always been like that so really no help either, slept in lazy boy alot of the time.Hugs its a pain in the bottom i feel like ive lost 15 months of sleep.

My DD was actually worse on a higher dose of losec - the wind issues it caused for her seemed to out weigh the benefits. My GP raised her dose and the paed reduced it back to 10mg and it acutally seemed better on the lower dose. We still had wind problems and sore tummies for ages. Tried a homeopathic product from the states which seemed to help a lot - coliccalm. However, was also the last thing I tried so she was already getting older so can't be sure. Would definitely try it on my next baby if I can persuade my DP to go there again after two refluxers! My DD obviously didn't have such serious reflux though as she was a nightmare at night for the first four months, but then improved.

Have you considered some probiotics and/or some slippery elm?

How long did you try the merbentyl for? Did it help at all? We were told to use3x a day for 3 days then as needed. DD2 farted constantly for the 3 days and after the first day we no longer had the crampy colicky tummy thing which used to start at about midday right through until she went down for the night (9-10pm). I can't have listened to the paed properly as I initially thought he just said as needed so was giving once late afternoon and that had no effect. Doing the 3 day thing did though. We never had those days again.

DD2 was still quite unsettled until around the 4 month mark then I started to see improvements. By 5 months she was heaps improved.

Am wondering if it might be the losec too.

Have you tried massage??? I love u and waterwheel are good ones for wind. Google them for vids etc.

Have you tried a hammock? I really changed my life with DD2 - we didin't get until somewhere in the 3-4 month mark (factory seconds on TM). I'm wondering if it might help with all the waking overnight and you could set up a long piece of string from hammock to your bed and could pull it during the night when bubs wakes. Some babies hate them though so would be good to just try one first.

Hugs

Thanks everyone for your words of wisdom once again. I have not tired probiotics yet or slippery elm but are next on my list.

As for the merbently he was on it exactly the same as you did accept after three days he was to have it late at night every night for an extra three days and then as needed. We have run out of it now so we are back to see paed tomorrow so hopefully will get some more. I didnt see any difference when he was taking though, no extra farting etc but he constantly farts now anyway and lets out a cry each time. Its funny because it didnt help with dd1 either. I have not tried a hammock yet but know someone who will let me borrow one so maybe I should do that.

I dont want to reduce the amount of losec as he still chokes alot now and is inhaling into his lungs.

Thanks again everyone, I have a few new things to try. Fingers crossed one will work

Hope something works for you soon, wizz. I have only just come out of that stage of desperately trying to find something that works so know how you feel. I might be wrong here, but I don't think the dose of losec your DS is on will affect how much he actually refluxes, it will just stop the burn that comes with it. DD on 10mg and 20mg refluxed the same amount, but 10mg seemed to control the acid with not too many side effects, but 20mg just caused us terrible wind/colic issues. Every baby is different though so I hope you find something that works soon. I know a lot of the other babies/children are on higher doses with no problems. Good luck. Solids were our saviour!

Afraid Susie is right - losec won't reduce the spilling/refluxing/choking - just decrease the burn and damage done.

But yes, higher doses can lead to greater side effects, that's why sometimes the dose is split morning and night to reduce side effects.

Solids certainly help some kids - not my guys though. It took William spilling recognisable but curdled weetbix on the Plunket nurse's floor to stop her saying you can't reflux solids...and he was 3.

Lol eleanor re: weetbix on the plunket nurses floor.

I hear what you guys are saying and understand aswell. When he was on 15mg a day his sleeping was alot worse where he was waking every 10 mins at night so Im worried if I lower the dose the burning will come back and make the sleeping issue worse. Ive only now just been able to put him down in a swing without waking for an hour so worried about rocking the boat, But I guess its worth a go to see if it helps with his tummy and who knows he may be better for it. Ill talk it over with my paed tomorrow and see what he says.

Thanks again guys

Wizz, you know him best. If you think he is sleeping better on 20mg than he was on 15mg then it is obviously helping so I would stick with the higher dose. I would consider the coliccalm. Don't know if anyone else has tried it, but it definitely helped my DD a bit. Recommended it to another friend as a "can't hurt why don't you try it" and she said it helped her DD too. I suppose it depends on the degree of the reflux but at least might help with some of the colic symptoms. I really feel for you though Wizz. My two are similar ages to yours and know how hard it is to cope with a nearly two year old on no sleep!

Doesn't sound like the merbentyl will help then. Have you treid Weleda ChamRad 20x - is for teething but is meant to help relax the gut. Worth a try perhaps.

If he likes movement to sleep then hammock is worth a try.

Hi so went back to paed today and asked about his breathing and his snuffles as he sounds like he has a really bad cold. I also told him of his increased waking in the last week and the windyness, He believes it could be allergy based so we went for rasts today for egg soy dairy peanuts and cat and dogs. Im sure it will come back clear but atleast we can rule it out. I also have some merbently so fingers crossed tonight he will be better.

Hi

Susie26 I was just wondering how soon after you lowered the losec dose did you see an improvement with the wind in your dd? Im desperate now as it just seems to be getting worse. After every feed now aswell as during the night. So for the last three days Ive reduced his losec down to 5mg twice a day but I have not seen any improvement yet and not sure how long untill I do see a difference. Its really affecting his sleep and he was a crap sleeper with the reflux before all these tummy issues started. When I mentioned it to my paed he said hmm could be allergy and sent us off for some tests but how can it be allergy when he is on neocate, which is what I asked and he said he could get back ground. Im so confussed. Im also going to try a dr browns bottle to see if that helps.

Hugs wizz, it does your head in trying to figure out whats what,i hope you find some answers soon.

Neocate won't help if he's allergic to something in the air - cats, dogs, dust. pollen etc so testing for that might help untangle where you are at.

Hope something helps!

So would environmental allergies also present as tummy pain and interfer with there sleep? He has been tested for cat and dog only for environmental. And he has been tested for that because of his constant blocked nose and bad breathing. He gets the results tomorrow and we have a dog and a cat who sleeps on our bed. If its not positive god only knows what we do next.

I don't think he would have tummy troubles from environmental allergies. I would go with the testing for food allergies though just in case but I would have expected this to clear on neocate unless he is somehow being exposed through something like cross contamination in his bottles or your hands or something like that - in which case he would have an extremely sensitive allergy and you would expect a positive for it... I don't know it... tricky. Hope you get some answers soon.

I think the tummy troubles must just be from reflux and maybe the losec. I still havent tried probiotics so really need to try them. thanks again everyone

My guess was more along the lines of the way a cold makes reflux worse - loads of mucus to swallow and aggravating the reflux that way?
Just a thought anyway - I'm far from an expert on allergies - my Mastermind specialist topic is reflux

Hi wizz. Sorry to hear things are no better. I am trying to think back to remember how long it took to see an improvement on the lower losec dose. It is really hard as those months are pretty hazy!!! I think it took a few days, probably less than a week. With us, the increased losec made DD go from waking every hour to not being able to put her down and her writhing around all night in my arms having to constantly jiggle her and keep her absolutely vertical. I think after a couple of days on the lower dose her really sore tummy stopped and I could at least put her down in bed for a short period. She still would wake every hour though with wind issues and my DD1 was the same. To be honest I still don't feel like I got to the bottom of it with either - I think they just outgrew it finally. Solids at four months and my DD learning to sit independently at four months seemed to help heaps. She seemed to be able to bring up her own wind much easier. If he is on neocate though it is a tough one. Have you tried different teat sizes/makes? I seriously considered expressing and bottle feeding my DD as my milk flow was really fast but exhaustion meant I never got round to it. If you want to give the coliccalm a go send me your address and I will post you some. I only have a half opened bottle though. It is a homeopathic remedy and I am sure it helped DD a bit. Might be worth a try. Fingers crossed something works for you soon.

Ooh forgot to say - interesting to hear about your wee boy's snuffly nose and breathing problems as DD2 is the same. She wheezes away all the time and always seems to have a really mucousy chest even if she doesn't have a cold.

Our boy found the higher doses of losec hard going too, and ended up refusing all his feeds. Just a thought though, as this was suggested to us by the gastro paed. If you think that the lower dose won't be enough to control the reflux, there may be a possibility of having him on a lower dose of losec and a small dose of ranitidene also.

wizz, how are you getting on? DD2 got sick at around 6 weeks and it made everything hideous and took ages to recover.

4-5 months was the turning point for us and by 6 months we had an almost model baby Hope you find the same

Hi Wuz

Still no change Im affraid. We got his allergy test results back which were thankly showed no allergy to milk, soy, egg and peanuts, cats and dogs. But it picked up on low iron and mild allergy to something which is likey to be environmental and will need skin prick tests done at 12mnths. Ive decreased the losec from 20mg to 10mg over a week ago now to see if it would help with the tummy pain but is hasnt helped at all. The paed said it should only take three days to see a difference. Ive not desperatly bought some dr browns bottles to see if that will help witht he wind etc. Today is day two on them and I have not seen a difference yet. He still needs movement to get to sleep and still wont sleep in cot yet during the day. I can get him to sleep in his cot at night from around 21.00pm untill 1am when the pain and squriming kicks in. Its frustrating as daughter also calmed down around the 4mnth mark where all of a sudden you could put her into bed without being rocked and she would just goo off to sleep. Every day I try with Flynn and he just wakes up continously. Even in his swing he will wake up alot. But apart from the really bad sleeping and sore tummy he can be such a delight during the day , all smiles.

Wizz, did you try an osteo? I can't remember now. I wonder if it is a colicky wind thing - I reckon DD2 would have been exactly as you describe if the merbentyl hadn't sorted things out at 3 months. Have you tried Weleda ChamRad20x - I doubt it will fix it but it might just take the edge off???? I hope things settle for you - babies needing constant movement and only sleeping upright on mum is VERY tiring but it is also hard to see them sooo uncomfortable.

Hi Wuzz

He was seeing a chiro from birth untill 10 weeks which is when I stopped as it was costing me a fortune and he was getting worse not better so it didnt help at all. I havnt triend the weleda chamrad20x yet but tired there colic one.

I just dont understand what the problem is as this only started up after his 3 mnth jabs. And its getting worse. The lowerin of the losec didnt help at all. Last night was a really bad night. Didnt get him to sleep untill 9.30 then was back up at 11.30 and then 1am and then every ten mins untill 6.30am. Im seeing the paed again tomorrow so will be interesting to see what he suggests this time.

How is the tummy problem going for you wizz?

My DS is almost 6 months. He gets a hard tummy and screams. It was happening around 3 months and died down a bit and came back at 5 months.

I'm considering reducing his losec but he's only on 10mg in the AM (plus 1ml ranitidine at 1pm and 5mg losec before bedtime)

Hi Edesanja

Sorry to hear your in the same boat. Its hard work isnt it! Last week was the week from hell with Flynn. Tuesday night he had breathing difficulties due to the reflux and it was quite scary. He was fine wed thrus with the usual sqirming at night and waking. Friday night he screamed non stop from 9pm untill 3am in the morning and every time I got him off to sleep and put him down or lay down with him he would wake up screaming. It was horrible. He seemed ok to me the next day. And then at 2am sunday morning it started again and he screamed non stop. I got my hubby up at 5am to take over as I was just to tired to deal with it and got back up at 6.30am and he was still at it. I took him to a&e they checked him out and just told me it was colic and there wasnt much you could do about it. I was dreading sunday night but I forgot to give him his pm 10mg dose of losec and he was back to his usual self. Still waking and sqirming but easy to settle and no screaming. Ive keep him on just the 10mg dose of losec am and have not been giving him his pm dose. Im too scared to now. I have no idea weather that was what caused it but he seems to be doing ok without it. My paed thinks he should be on 20mg so Im going to rediscuss it with him at his next appointment.
Im tempted to give him a pm dose to see if anything happens but just so hesitant. Flynn is also having his 5mnt vaccinations tomorrow so Im not looking forward to that as he screamed all night last time after his shots and went off his feeds for a few weeks. Fingers crossed he doesnt react to them this time.

Wizz, if he isn't in more reflux pain on the 10mg dose then I can't see any need to give more. Personally, I'd keep him on the lower dose and see how he goes. If he continues to be better at night and doesn't seem to deteriorate reflux wise then I'd leave it like that. Whatever gives you the happier baby.

You're game getting the jabs done. We haven't been back for those since the hideous unsettledness post the 6week ones done at 10 weeks. I don't know what I'm going to do there. Bubs now 7.5 months.

Wizz,
I'd seriously give the paed a call first before you tinker with doses. You need to work as a team with the paed and if either of you are off doing your own thing you can't work together for the best for Flynn.

Just as a random eg you know about Thomas having all these eating/swallowing issues atm? He's on the list for a scope after the barium swallow from h*ll a few weeks back.
The surgeon's put him on mylanta and omeprazole in the meantime to see if it'll help.
Today I had a call offering T a cancellation slot for his scope tomorrow - but the surgeon's asked for him to be off meds for 10 days at least beforehand so we couldn't take it.

I have seen no difference at all for T on the meds as off them so I'm going to stick it out for the rest of the week and then contact the surgeon on Monday and tell him what I've seen and ask that he come off the meds now. Then we can tell the hosp that they can put him on the cancellation list for 10 days time. If anything comes up then he could potentially have his scope 2 weeks earlier than predicted - good result for all.

Even though I don't believe for 1 second the meds are helping his gloopies I'm not taking him off until I can talk to the surgeon. We have a good working relationship and a partnership in T's care. I don't want him booking things without telling me, I want to be sure he's keeping all T's medical caregivers in the loop, we have to communicate and collaborate or things don't get done. If you respect the medical bods then usually, not always but usually, they'll respect you. They may be the medical experts but I'M the Thomas expert.

I agree with what you are saying Eleanor but I know that if I were in the same situation as wizz, I would keep him off the meds until the next appointment given that she is now 4 days into a reduced dose and by the sounds of it he is heaps happier. If that changes then she could always put his dose back up. That is actually useful information for the paed. Sometimes you just have to go for the lesser of two evils - crampy tummy or less controlled reflux - I know when DD2's colic was REALLY bad, it was way worse than any reflux pain she had ever had, way way worse.

We recently tried dropping DD2 evening dose (so 10mg in morning only) and she was no different for about 3 days then seemed like something wasn't right (she was holding her tongue out a lot) but didn't necessarily seem like it was reflux. I ended up giving her the night dose again but the next day she was full of cold and had a viral rash so I would say her seeming off was a virus rather than the lower dose. Anyway, it was still useful for me to try her on a lower dose as, when I try again soon, if she does the funny tongue thing again I will know that it is about the reflux etc etc.

Good luck wizz, do what you think is right.

I would ahve thought the colic would have gone now cos that usually goes around 3 months. Hmm, in saying that DD2s was really bad at 3 months so we used merbentyl and it was gone with using that over 3 days. ANyway, at this point in time I'd be thinking that it might be the losec irritating things too as it is known to cause crampiness.

Have you tried massage? There are some good ones you can do to help move gas through etc. It wasn't a cure for DD2 but it might be worth a go, in the least you feel like you are trying to help...

I have ended up reducing J's morning dose of losec from 10mg to 5mg (he was on 10mg in AM, 1ml ranitidine at 1pm, 5mg in PM). It has possibly helped a bit but it hasn't solved the problem (and I'm not even sure it's not just a conincidence). (I didn't check with the paed but at our last appointment 3months ago he wanted to decrease it. We tried and it didn't work so we put it back up. I didn't think it would be against his wishes to try again).

Today he was fussy feeding again - pulling on and off like he used to do. Today was day 4 of reducing the morning dose. How long should we allow for rebound? Or should I call it quits and just put it back up since it hasn't totally cured the tummy problem either?

Hi Eleanor

Thanks for the advice. My paed is in the loop with his losec dose. I initially lowered flynns dose from 20 to 10mg about a 6 weeks ago after speaking to my paed on the phone and getting the go ahead. In that time for I saw no difference with his windy clolicky tummy and found I was still up with him all night. I also did not see any difference with his reflux ie: he didnt seem to be suffering with the lower dose. We did have that night a couple of weeks back where he had trouble with his breathing but I dont think that was from the lack of losec. (with cassie whenever we dropped her dose she was a nightmare) We saw the paed the following week and I talked to him then about the lowering of the dose and he then said that no he needs to be back on 20mg so that night I put him back on it and thats when hell broke lose and screaming went on for 6hrs and then he just stopped and started untill 6am. The next night was the samebut started at 2am in the morning and was still going at 8am in the morning. Now it could be coincindence of course but he did not have his losec the next night and he was so much better. So even though yes I should inform my paed and get his go ahead but he is on holiday right now and I cant thing of anthing worse than having him screaming all night again. Im also up around 10 time a night with Cassie at the moment and still havnt gotten to the bottom of whats wrong with her yet. Once she has settled down Ithink I will feel more confident with trying Flynn back on the 20mg even though I really dont think he needs it but will be interested to see what happens. He still has alot of wind some nights which starts around 3am but its not constant screaming, its just alot of wriggling and suirming which I just walk with him untill it passes.

wuz..I said the same thing to the dr at a&e...I thought colic was meant to be gone by five mnths not start. But he told me they can still have colic at that age. I went ahead and got him vaccinated and Im glad I did now as this time round there was no reaction at all. Im wondering if its because his reflux is so much better.

Edesanja..when he pulls off when he feeds it could also be to do with wind. Try sitting up straight when he does this and see if you can get any wind out. I know with flynn when he does this its because of the wind more so than the reflux. Ive started putting ifalcol in every bottle he has and Im not to sure if its a coincidence or not but there is less spilling, pulling off and seems to be better at night. I have tried ifacol before but didnt see the results Im getting now. As for the rebound they recommend atleast 7 days so try and stick with it for another 3 days if you can. And then if no better than give the dose back up again. Its hard work heh.

Eleanor how is Thomas doing? I have now idea how you surive. I read what you wrote for the newsletter and made me cry. Your are won strong lady. Hugs

Edesanja

Im not sure if you are breast feeding or not but flynn is now on the bottle and I swithed from avent to dr browns bottles which are meant to be fantastic for wind and I have to say even thought it didnt happen straight away I have seen a big improvement with the change...maybe that is why he is less windy. I find that if I have no dr browns bottles left Ive used an avent and he has been really unsettled drinking and after having the bottle.

The pulling off isn't usually what happens if he's got wind. In the past it has meant reflux. It's like he's wincing from reflux and so pulls off.

We use Tommee Tippee closer to nature bottles and infacol

I've decided today to switch to Neocate for 3/4 feeds. It's just too hard with the 'what if' factor when I'm breastfeeding and he's starting solids. I so hope that it solves our tummy issues!

That's interesting about the bottles wizz. Maybe he just wasn't getting a good seal on the avent ones? They are a different teat shape too. I found avent useless for a fussy feeder, DD1 could bend the teat around too much. We ended up moving her to Nuk. DD2 I started out on Evenflo teats (which are almost identical to the Dr Brown ones), tried her on the Nuk ones but she couldn't drink from those so she stayed on the Evenflo ones.

Did you ever try the Weleda Cham Rad 20x? I used it every bottle and I actually think it helps. We ran out for a few days and she was doing short day sleeps. DH got some more Sat night, started using again on Sunday morning and that day she had 2x 2h sleeps, good sleeps again today... it does say on it that it can help for occasional sleeplessness etc too. I was recommended it to help with colic by the Plunket Family Centre. Might be worth a try???? You could give with the infacol and it is easy as you just add to the bottle as well.

Edesanja, yeah I find it hard to work out if its wind or reflux when Flynn pulls off. I gave him a feed out of one of our tommee tippee closer to nature bottles yesterday as I had washed all the dr browns bottles up and he pulled after every 10mls with a scream. Ive tried and tested alot of bottle lol I hope going on neocate helps his tummy. Flynn is soley on neocate and still has tummy problems. Dont forget that if its an allergy giving him sore tummys even though your wont be soley breast feeding it will still pass through the milk and upset his tummy. It know for sure if its an allergen upsetting his tummy you would have to use the neocate and not breast feed and it can take up to 3 weeks to see a difference. With flynn when he was being breast fed he would wake screaming every ten mins at night and after being on neocate for 6-8 weeks is when I saw a huge difference with his sleeping. Still not the best sleeper though.

Wuz- I went to the chemist last week to get some cham rad but they didnt have any so thought I would try somewhere ealse but just havent had the chance. We are in the country
with one chemist and the next one is half an hour away. I also want to get some digestrodoron. Im managing to get flynn to have one sleep a day in his cot but its not for long buts it alot better than what he was doing. I have a booklet I picked up at the chemist about weleda remedies for mother and child. Under colic it doest even list cham rad as remedy. Its got the colic powder and also mentions for severe cases of colic to gently massage oxails 10% ointment into the babies abdomen and give 5 drops of chamomilla/nicotiana comp. And for breat feeding babies mums to drink lactagogue tea four times a day to relieve the colic in the baby. So there we are a few other remedys to try if one doesnt work lol. How much does the cham rad cost?

As for the teats on the bottles, avent and dr browns are pretty much identical from what I can see the only difference is the dr browns teats are more flexible and squishy. The avent ones are alot more stronger feeling.

Weleda Cham Rad 20x is for teething. There is also Cham RAd 3x??? which is for colic but the 20x is stronger and what the Fmaily Centre recommended. The 20x bottle also says can help with sleeplessness The colic powder is essentially the cham rad in a powder form (with losec) rather than in solution. It is maybe $14 a bottle.

I think you should get through this site
http://www.healthy.co.nz/search/results/a721df683919e0e560415cd5a577550e
They don't have it on their website but if you email them with what you want, they will get it in for you and then post to you. (They have done this for me before with other weleda products). I buy stuff from them a lot (they have a shop close to me too), free delivery if you spend over $50.

or here
http://www.healthpost.co.nz/Supplements/...hing-Drops.html
http://www.healthpost.co.nz/Product/WLDIG/Digestodoron
they also have the 3x colic drops if you would prefer those over the 20x
http://www.healthpost.co.nz/Product/WLCHRC/Cham-Rad-3x-Colic-Drops

Finally back and operating better today - sick hubby last week and sick myself this week fun and games!

Thomas is just ticking along. No better, no worse, occasionally gives us a couple of really good days and you start to wonder if it's all in your head and then it all turns to custard again and you know it's not!

Scope is booked for the 15th so I guess we'll find out after that where we're at. In the meantime it's one foot in front of the other trying to survive - and keep him surviving, don't think you can call it thriving when he has no stamina or reserves. Despite a nap and a tube feed yesterday he lost the plot from exhaustion during his older brother's music recital and it was only 7:30pm - he is over 5!

And just when we thought the evil debris of reflux might eventually leave us alone - Nicholas' terrible eating has lead us to the point where the paed has referred us back to the surgeon for a tube for Nicholas. So loads of fun on the horizon round here! Thank heavens William recovered from his reflux surgery well, eats and is growing like a weed!

Hope things are improving for Flynn.

HI Wuz

Thanks for those links. I ordered the cham rad x20 as stronger the better I reakon. Flynns sleeping has gone down hill again so Im hoping this might help. Have spoke to paed re: losec dose and we going to try and give him a second dose of 10mg tonight and see if it upsets his tummy. And if not then carry him on 20m and see if it will help with the sleep. I quite doubt it will as it didnt last time he was on that dose. I cant wait to try the cham rad out and the digestodoron and see if it helps aswell.

Eleanor I cant believe what your poor kids are going through. They must be very strong boys to have coped with so much. I hope you get some answers soon.

Is he constipated Wizz? THat will be disrupting his sleep, Hopefully the digestodoron helps with that.

OMG wuz...they arrived yesterday by lunch time which was super quick. I gave Flynn his first dose of both. With in and hour and a half he did a poo and then he went to sleep from 15.30 to 17.30 with only needing resettling twice...this is the longest he has ever slept during the day and it was in his cot. I then gave him another dose and he went back to sleep at 18.30 waking for feeds or the dummy and then finally waking at 5.50am. Im hoping its not a coincidence lol. And he hasnt been reacting to the extra 10mg of losec Ive been giving him. I hope this isnt just a passing phase. I wish I had of tried the cham rad x20 sooner and the digestodoron. So thanks heaps for the suggestion.

Well, whatever it is, that is GREAT!!!!!! Hope it keeps up.

Great news!

How's it going wizz?

HI Wuz

He is doing great during the day and will now sleep in his cot for atleast 1hr-2hrs. I sometimes have to resettle but usually just by putting the dummy in his mouth. Nights still arnt that great. Not getting him into bed untill around 9pm because he just keeps on waking up. And is still waking around 4am every 20 mins or so with windy tummy. Not screaming the house down though just squirming and I have to get up with him at that point and just walk around with him. Its strange because as soon as I stand and have him upright his body relaxes and he calms right down. But laying down with him starts it back up again. Im not sure if its wind or reflux pain as he never seems to bring any wind up. Its a huge improvement and makes my life so much easier during the day. Haveing my hands free Im able to keep up with most of the house work now and spend some over due time with cassie.

Wizz that is great, it is all positive and moving forward. I would say the 4am wake is reflux related. I can't remember, is he FF or BF? If FF, have you tried neocate? I just wonder cos a friends girl was a happy bubba but used to wake and writhe around at around 4am every morning. She had many allergies and they eventually got her onto neocate (plus some stuff from a naturopath) and over time that stopped. The naturopath said it was intolerance/allergy related as the ?liver is very active that time of morning hence her being uncomfortable then. Just a thought.

You're at 5.5 months now, I reckon in another month things will be much improved :)At 6 months we honestly felt like we had a different baby.

I'm with Wuzz on this one - the fact that he squirms lying down and relaxes upright screams reflux to me.

So can reflux cause tummy pain that also makes them pull there legs up as that is the only thing making me lean towards wind. I also agree that it sounds like reflux with once being upright he calms right down.

Wuz he has been on neocate since he was 12 weeks. Prior to that he woke every 15mins so has really helped. How old is ypur baby now wuz? I cant wait for solids Im hoping it will solve all our problems.

Yep reflux can make them contort in all sorts of ways trying to relieve the pain they are in, poor little things.

DD2 is 8 months. We started solids at 5.5months. Started really really slowly, just pear for 2 weeks, then carrot for a week, then pumpkin for a week (only small amount, maybe 2tsp), then orange kumara, then gold kumara, then meat... DD2 is a real gagger, DD1 was having heaps of finger food by now but DD2 has a really strong gag reflex. She is getting heaps better though and eats little bits of meat, salmon, cheese etc.

Cassie who is now 2yr we started solids at 5.5mnths ans she had a really strong gag reflex aswell. She use to do big powerchucks while feeding and make a huge mess. She did this right up untill she was around 15mnths and now she seems to only do it when she doesnt like something. Flynn has shocking gag reflex also. He cant take a 3mnth old dummy as just gags and chokes on it so he a tiny new born one. I hoping he will ok with his solids. With cassie we just made really runny and smooth when she first started out. I guess two more weeks and I can start giving him a little solids per day. When is the best time of day to offer them as I have forgotten.

Best time of the day is whenever they are freshest!
Also not just before going to bed if dealing with reflux or allergies because you want them up in case they react to anything.

Have fun with the food adventure

Interesting about the gag reflex. DD2 would gag on dummies too. She is on thicker textures now and can eat little bits of mince. Has actually been pretty good progress over the last month looking back.

Flynn just seems to be getting better and better. He slept through last night not needing his 2.30am feed. I had to get up a few times but only to put the dummy in his mouth and he didnt do his usual wake up at 4am with tummy problems. MAY IT LAST!

Blardy fantastic wizz. OMG you must be feeling sooo stoked!

How are you getting on wizz?

Actually Im glad you posted. I having real big problems with Flynn a the moment and I not sure if its too do with starting solids or not. So we visited the paed last tuesday and he said flynn was doing well and once he started sitting we could try lowering his dose of losec and to go ahead and start solids. So i tired flynn that day on wholegrain rice that I mademyself. He loved it and had it wed thurs and fri with no problems. So on sat I introduced golden kumera around 11am and that night around 5pm he did his choking breathing thing with alot of wheezy coughing. He had been really grizzly all that afternoon since he got up that morning and really hard to give a bottle too. Kept pulling off the bottle and screaming and sqirming around. We didnt manage to get him into bed untill around 10.30pm that night as he just kept waking up and screaming once placed down, he also coughed and choked all night in his sleep. He Was the same the next day really grizzly and kept pulling off the bottle and sqiring around like hes got colic. Monday was the same so I took him to the drs yesterday and she said just to stick to the rice for a week and then introduce a new one by adding to the rice. He had another choking fit last night where he starts coughing and starts choking and gags and just gets a real blockage in his throat which he then needs help with clearing. That happened at 5.45pm and then for his 7pm feed it ws really hard getting him to take it because of the pulling away. We got him to sleep around 8pm but he just kept waking every 20 mins or so. At his 10.30 feed as soon as I put the teat in his mouth he started coughing really weezy and power chucked. So he didnt even have any of that feed. He was up and down all night so at 4am I tried again with a bottle which the same thing happened. While this is happening he sqirming around throwing his body around in pain. Its worries me that this is getting worse and Im not sure what to do. Should I stop solids untill his reflux is under control. Is it just a coincidence that his reflux has gotten worse around the time he has started solids? Im going to ring and see if I can speack to the paed today about this as he is constantly coughing and he does not have a cold. I really thought we were over the worst. sigh

I'd stop the solids and see if it settles down. If this happens again when you re-start solids, then you know it is that. I did 1 week with a new solid to begin with too - did 2 weeks of 1-2tsp of baby pear first, then a week on carrot, then a week on orange kumara etc. She has having on a couple of tsp for the first 6 weeks I would say.

It doesn't seem like he will cope with a doseage decrease anytime soon

Did your GP give him a once over? Just wondering if he is in fact sick. DD got the slightest cold, the a cough which would cause her to vomit. When I finally took her to the doctor she had tonsilitis. SHe too was arching back while feeding and not feeding well at all.

WHat a bummer!

Yeah I think Ill stop the solids untill he gets better. Yeah the dr checked his throat and ears. They were all good. I guess its just waiting it out now untill the worst passes. I remember with cassie when we would have agreat patch and then all of a sudden she would go down hill and we just had to wait it out and eventually she came right. Its just frustrating when he was doing so well. I think Ill give it a week and if there is no improvement even off the solids Ill take him back to the paed. Man its expensive sigh

Hugs its always 2 steps forward and one back with reflux,as wuz said stop soilds and when you start do it very slowly. We had real issues starting solids to now at 17 months shes great apart from when she has a flare up.

Took me a while to catch up on this thread.

Maybe give him a couple of days without solids and then restart with just rice. Add low salicylate veges like potato, swede, leek, celery first. I agree with the doctor about adding the kumara when you get back around to that to the rice as it will dilute it and make it more tolerable. It is a really good food and sometimes well tolerated with GORD.

Another shake here in Christchurch and time for bed.

Thanks Roz, I have kept him off the solids for a few days and he has really improved. So Ill try again with the rice and some low salicylate veges and even the more digestiable ones.

I dont know how you guys are surving with all those shakes.

How are you going? Have you tried some veges again? Any success?

Hi
Yes tried the veges again and he happily took them. but went down hill pretty quickly again with the choking, bad cough. This doesnt happen when he is eating...its hour after. But in the last couple of weeks he has gotten alot better so have been sticking to simple foods like pear, carrot. The problem Im having now though is he wont open his mouth to take them so I have to really try and get him to smile and slip it im. He gets very distressed and doesnt seem happy to have it. He is 7mnths now and Im a bit worried that he wont take solids. But Im guessing he will if he is hungry. He certainly doesnt have a weight issue as he is very big. On the occasions I do get him to take solids he gags and the whole lot including his milk feed comes straigt back up. So we are doing it slowly and I make sure I offer him solids atleats once a day to get him use to them

Definitely keep up with the solids despite gagging. They have to learn. Don't worry too much about variety of foods as long as they progress through the stages/textures.

http://www.cryingoverspiltmilk.co.nz/Food/FoodandReflux.htm

Best wishes

the gagging is not the problem, its getting it into him which is limiting his progress with solids. he just wont open his mouth.

DD2 was very gaggy as well which made it quite hard to progress through the textures but it changed quite rapidly around 9 months and, a month later, she is eating family meals, easily spits food out that is too bg for her to swallow etc. So, I think, like you say, the getting to happily eat is the issue (and just keep stuff really thin for now - is he ok with the baby pear in the jars etc, that is very thin). You could try feeding him while he is in a bouncer looking at toys (i.e. distracted). Or give him a squeeky toy/favourite toy to play with while feeding. If he has one taste and that is all he wants then I'd just leave it at that. You need to keep it really stress free and I reckon he will come around, so totally back off if he is getting upset. With DD2, I just slotted in her solids time to basically coincide with us eating which I think worked heaps better as I wasn't constantly trying to feed her and it doesn't become all stressy. She would sit for quite a while and I'd just put a little bit in now and then. She got the meal time/soocial side of eating while sitting there too (in highchair or on my knee). Good luck

HI Wuz

Well poor flynn has had a tummy bug since last tuesday so we have made no progress with solids. Im starting to get stressed out about it as he just wont take them. He certainly is a well covered little boy so there is no issues there. But Im just wondering when he will decided to eat. Little monkey. I guess he will eat when he is ready. Ive got so much frozen baby food as Ive tried everything lol

My DS3 was late to food. I had been trying since around 6months old but he was well into eight months before he was eating properly and even then he was only eating two meals a day and quite small quantities. I did move him through the texture stages though - so at around 10-11 months I intro'd plenty of finger foods and also made sure other foods were full of texture (soft lumps in kumara, millet flour which is quite grainy etc). DS was also a big gagger and a big food refuser - he really ate very little before 20 months. This improved after we got his tonsils out (at 20 months) - not sure if he was ready to grow out of it or it was the tonsils . Just be patient and persistant

thanks threeboys, I guess I just be patient. Im lucky if he eats 4tsp a day and he is nearly 8mnths. Everyone comments on how big he is and what do I feed him lol they are shocked when I say he is only really formula fed.

He will get there wizz.Both my girls alwasy lost interest in food when sick too so hopefully he will get back into it as he feels better.

A colleague of mine said his little one was terrible with solids, gagging etc etc. FInally someone actually looked in his mouth and said he had huge tonsils and they were suprised that he actually slept as well as he did etc. He would not eat purees etc but was ok with some finger food. Improved dramatically when the tonsils came out but he still has issues over mash and sloppy type food (purely sychological at this point) and is of primary school age. Anyway, jsut a little sotry for ya I was starting to worry about DD2 and tonsils due to her gagging but it came right really quickly around the 9 month mark.

Just keep on trying and it doesn't need to be you feeding him. Offer the food, let him play with it - my MIL would be horrified - and was! LOL. Its all about experimenting. If the fingers go in the food and then in the mouth, that is all good. What about small cubes of well cooked foods, tolerated crackers etc with mashed veges to dip them into and suck off. It is not about volume. Its about texture and exploration.

From eight months you should be offering solids first, formula second and I would do this for three meals a day. I know it seems a waste of time but just put a little out and keep your expectations low. I totally agree also about trying to have baby with you at the table for mealtimes, and making it a family time. What about if you are eating some of the same food?