Wow teacup 40wks!

I must say my life was the hardest just before I gave birth, children were excruciatingly uncooperative and frustrating. I am hoping it will all chill out a little bit for you when that new baby is out!

I can however fully sympathise with the not listening, it really is maddening. We do the same as Eleanor does, face level, demand eye contact, issue instruction. I also get him to repeat what I have just asked him to do a lot of the time - as I know when he is ignoring a lot of the time he just hears blah blah blah and he just issues standard response and runs off in a random direction ...

But it really is so frustrating! So you have my sympathy, and unfortunately the not listening appears to just be getting worse as mine gets older. Or maybe it stays the same but I expect it to get better?? Dunno.

Also, in regards to the room thing, I made a poster (with pictures too for when he was just learning to read) that broke down tidying his room into a stepwise procedure. That helped with the "how" but not so much with the "I dont want to" LOL

cheers, i will definitley try the getting down on his level and making him look at me - getting eye contact out of him though is like getting blood out of a stone at the best of times - i get about three seconds before something else distracts him

i'm going to pinch your idea eleanor and trade in chunks of computer time - i think he'll go for that. i had to at the room cleaning thing as well because M moved to a new room the other weekend - oh, the weekend he missed out on going to the duckpond with me and F, he'd been in his new room a few hours and managed to pull out almost everything he owned and then he sat in the middle of it and screamed blue murder for AGES when i asked him to start picking it up (told him i'd come help him IF he made an effort, otherwise i do all the picking up and he puts two things away and then gets distracted and starts playing or reading). of course it was an awesome day and all the windows were open - and he's about 3ft away from the fence, the neighbours probably think we were trying to kill him or something

i try and sit down with him every night and spend some time with him - last night i was apologising for being a grumpy cow (while also trying to explain that perhaps acting like a crackpot ALL the time isn't really on). on one hand he LOOKS like he's listening - on the other hand, when i'm done, he goes 'do YOU know what eight plus eight is?' and i am like OH FOR THE LOVE OF GOD I GIVE UP.

Oh Teacup!

You get the what's 8 plus 8 AFTER you've finished??
Try half way through and when you say I'll answer that later I'm talking right now it just gets yelled at you at an increasing decibel level!!

If you can't get eye contact I've been known to take his face in my hands to get it - something we used with William when he was little.

Yes, we break steps down and also get him to repeat things back as well - it's the only way to stay even remotely sane.
3 basic behaviour rules outlined before we go somewhere, he tells them to me before we go in - and consequences are outlined before we go in - and carried out if needed. He was very nearly removed from visiting his great grandmother in hospital on Friday as I was with my sister and so could have left T and W with her.

Go for it with the computer - just set clear guidelines for both of you so he knows where he's at. And as I learnt to my cost at the outset - never put him into the point of no return - then there is no incentive to turn things round and the gates of hell will be opened wide for that day...

We try not to remove the next day's time before that day but before his medication change a few months ago he did set a new record in losing a week's worth of computer time by 11am on a Monday morning...it did dawn on me that by the Tuesday he'd have forgotten why he wasn't getting computer time that week and perhaps it wasn't the best way to manage horrendous behaviour!

I do have an advantage over you - Nicholas is small and light and when he's really awful I can actually pick him up and carry him screaming and kicking into his room if needed!

40 weeks preggers - you must feel like you are about to pop! I never got that far with my guys but seriously, I looked at tummies in that last trimester and just couldn't believe the size!
Hugs and hang in there - maybe you'll get a few days peace in the hospital with this little one?!

Hi,

Not sure if this is the right place to post yet but i guess i just want to sound out our experience and see what others thoughts are.

My ds6 is being tested for adhd by his paediatrician. They are testing using the connors test? i think. He is also having a brain mri to rule out brain insult.

Just a bit of background. He was born at 36 weeks weighing only 4lb10oz. At a week old he developed viral meningitis and by time of hosp admission he wasn't breathing and his HR was dropping rapidly, basically he was minutes from cardiac arrest and death. He spent a week in a coma in PICU. At the time we were told he would likely make a full recovery as it was viral, the brain uss at the time was normal i.e no bleeds but no ct or mri was performed.

unfortunately we had multiple issues post the meningitis. The first year were feeding issues, major ones that saw him drink no more than 200mls a day some days. he just never ever seemed hungry and no amount of forcing milk in would make him drink. In the end, it was the introduction of neocate that made him get an appetite and start to drink. he spent much of his first year in hosital.

the next set of issues arose with starting to learn to walk. basically it was an incredibly prolonged process that saw him turn in circles before collapsing in a heap. A ct was perormed which was normal. After a raft of testing etc, it was found he had a weakness down one side, his left. he was referred to the child development team where he was under the physios and ots etc. Its also what they think contributed to his feeding issues, his gut was twisted around his spine and digestion was most likely hindered.

His next issue was his speech, or lack of. He had weekly speech therapy till he turned 5 then no longer qualified however further testing by the MOE found he had significant language and comprehension issues as well as speech. He qualifies for in school speech therapy by the MOE.

In the past 6 months to a year we have noticed a deterioration in his gross motor skills/balance, he falls over whenever he runs any sort of distance. His learning hasn't really developed much, he struggles with reading, writing, spelling etc but he enjoys maths. and in the past 6 months especially, his behaviour has deteriorated rapidly. he has no impulse control, he does stuff even when he knows he shouldn't and we are standing there telling him not to do it. he has no fear of consequences, no matter what they are, his need to do what he wants to do, outweighs any sort of threatened consequence. He is having more frequent anger outbursts and uncontrollable melt downs though never at school. In general his behaviour at school is not too bad though they have some behaviour control in place for him. he is very social and very popular amongst his peers, which is frequently commented on by his teachers and in reports etc etc.

Attention wise he struggles with anything where he has to remained focused etc, or behave for any length of time, yet he could sit and watch tv all day long if we let him. For example at the paeds appt yeterday, he couldn't sit down for a second, he went from one thing to the next, complaining constantly of being bored and demanding to be let out to go to the playroom. In the end he just went, even though he had been told numerous times he wasn't to leave the room. We were both so greatful for the peace we let him go lol.

He is one of 4 kids, so whilst we have questioned our parenting with him over and over (and wondered whether we are just more lenient with him cos he was so sick etc) it really is becoming more apparant that its more than that. Our other kids behaviour is fine, in fact good generally.

His other issue is he tires very easily. Even with decent sleep habits he is often very very tired, he gets very pale and has black circles round his eyes. he eats alot, seems to be always hungry and needing food.

So we saw his paed yesterday (she looks after him for follow up post a bad illness last year with resulting HSP) and she is more than happy to take all this on aswell. She is ordering the mri and has advised eye sight testing. his reading recovery teacher emailed me this week noting he reads from the line below often. he had a whole raft of bloods done, incl some chromosomal ones aswell. She thinks he may have adhd and may benefit from medication. Whether its the cause of, or seperate to the learning issues etc is unclear.

So, basically we are having to open ourselves to something we never really had thought of as a possibility. yes he was always more challenging than the others, but we had never thought in a million years he had adhd, till the last 6 months or so when we began to wonder wtf was up with him. I don't know alot about it and i guess was just wondering whether it sounds like adhd behaviour. They still have to rule out brain injury but she wonders whether medication would help even if that was the cause of his issues, as the symptoms are much the same.

any thoughts?

and any opinions on whether to medicate or not? it seems such a massive call but i'm in two minds over it and really have no idea as to what would be the right hting to do.

thanks for reading the novel and tia for any advice, opinions etc.

If you are into alternative stuff I can recommend neurolink, I don't quite know how it works but we notice major changes afterwards - in behaviour and learning abilities. We only needed two sessions although we also had one session 3 years ago to help with speech issues. www.neurolink.co.nz

While I haven't tried it myself (yet) I have been told we should also try Contact Care - the link closest to you that I found is http://www.release.net.nz/contact.html although we've been told to make the trip to Ngatea as the guy there is apparently fantastic. I know the website says impact injuries but we know people who have gone in that have had strokes etc and have had improvements.

Hi YM,

I've written heaps here about Nicholas' behaviour so skim the thread if you are interested.

In terms of the 'Is it isn't it?' and 'It wasn't this bad when he was littler' kind of thing - I'd convinced myself that Nicholas was just 'going through a phase', just a high impact, high demands kid who had a really naughty streak. But the normal discipline approaches just DID NOT WORK with Nicholas. You'd tell him off, put him in time out, he'd clearly be contrite etc, come out and be straight back into doing what had just got him into time out in the first place!

I think part of it is a lot of the hyperactivity and lack of impulse control is typical for little ones, it's as they get older and don't mature out of it like their peers that you start to see the issues more clearly.
Nicholas was also very popular with kids at school but starting to fall out of popularity because he was just too much to take. These days N is nearly 9 and his big brother gets asked by other kids why can't N just shut up and behave himself.

As I understand it the Connors rating is the standard tool for assessing the ADHD and well normed and so on so should be fairly reliable.

Nicholas is medicated and it was something we thought very hard about. It is a big call but one we don't regret the slightest bit. We're dealing with eating issues with Nicholas at the moment and the paed suggested a weekend off meds to see how it helped his eating - Nicholas himself was loath to do it, esp when we all agreed that to get a clear picture it'd have to be more like a week.

Nicholas can now sit and concentrate, he remembers and follows instructions, when he's told not to do something he more often than not doesn't do it. He still has hyped up stupid maniac days - like any kid, it hasn't squashed his personality in any way - he's still as bright, charming, cheeky, full of beans as ever - but HE'S happier. He's not constantly being told off, punished, missing out on things and breaking things like he was.

The fast acting methyphenidate only stays in the system for about 4 hours and takes about 30 mins to kick in so you can see pretty quickly if it'll work for your kid - and if there are side effects then they are pretty short lived as it clears the system.
It can take quite some juggling to get meds right so if it doesn't work too well at first it may just need tweaking. N's been on 2-3 doses of fast release methylphenidate, then 1 of foast and a later dose of slow release, and then a top up of fast, and various permutations. He's currently responding best to a twice daily dose of dexamphetamine so there are various drugs that can be used.
He was always tired, would have 'tired little child' tantrums around 3pm - but wouldn't sleep well until his paed said lots of ADHD kids have trouble switching off at night. N would either thrash around in his bed, play in his room or even charge into our room to chat to us with the latest snippet that floated through his mind! So he's now on clonidine at night to help the wind down process - his sleep's better, again he's happier and less tired - and we've got our evenings back as well!

Hope some of this helps - and someone else has said don't do meds on an anxious child. N has always been that way inclined and we've seen NO increase in that, so like most things and esp with meds, I think it depends on your own child's personal reactions to things.

hi!

WWYD moment -

about 8 weeks ago i lent ALL m's dvds to his cousin who had a broken arm and was looking at being off school/at home for about 6 weeks - and i was sick of M watching so much tv/talking ONLY about transformers etc etc. ever week since then i tell M if he can get through whatever day we have free without being silly then we can go and get the dvds. inevitably he acts up at some point and i get frustrated (its always at the WORST moment) and we don't go and get the DVDS. this weekend was crappy - while he is great with his brothers and has been stellar about looking out for F while i am busy with T and all that - he still doesn't listen to dh or i, doesn't clean up (i'd help him clean his room and literally half an hour later it would look EXACTLY like it had done before we cleaned it... so many times), threw tanties when he didn't get his way, refused to answer people who asked him direct questions... yada yada yada. at one stage he went to the loo and got poop EVERYWHERE and didn't flush - thats a pretty common thing and i am SO sick of going in there and having to wade through wee on the floor or wipe poop off the seat and whatnot - he KNOWS he's supposed to clean up after himself and he KNOWS that if he can't he should come and tell me and i will help him out but if he doesn't come and tell me and i find it on my own i will be mad - and i STILL have to go in there and find it/clean it - grrr! anyway, on sunday night he was mucking around and i lost it a bit and told him that i was just going to ring his aunty and tell her to keep the DVDS because obviously we were NEVER going to make it out there etc etc (not my finest parenting moment - but i am running on VERY little sleep these days). he was upset.... understandably.

anyway, my SIL bought the dvds back this morning and now i am stuck as to what to do with them. honestly i think if i just keep them out of sight he will forget about them until we go visit their house. if i just put them all back then its like i made a big deal about nothing (and so did he). i was thinking about making him 'earn' them back - yanno, if he earns all his extra computer time in a day then it gives him something else to aim for) tho i'm pretty sure it would take him 309894456456 years to earn them all back at the present stage

what would you do?

Teacup,

Hugs!

You know I think right now with so much else on your plate and the fact that he's getting stuck in a difficult rut that I'd make it a little more attainable and see if you can help him snap out of it.

Pick a behaviour and target it. The dvds are obviously desirable so make one fairly easy to get and stretch it out progressively. They will give you some peace too so punishing yourself as well as him isn't much fun!

It's so easy for these kids to give up trying if they never seem to achieve their rewards.

..

Hugs - unfortunately there is no answer.
My ADHD kid is just turned 9 and yup - there is simply no rhyme or reason - and no predicting what hairbrained scheme he's going to come up with next.

A couple of months ago he locked the GP out of his room and refused to open the door. He has set fire to a kitchen, swallowed a magnetic metal ball, dropped a brother on his head, concussed himself and very nearly thrown himself over a deck with a 2 story fall onto concrete.

I guess this is why we get the Child Disability Allowance - he needs a heck of a lot more care and attention than another child of his age for his own and others safety...

The psych suggested that part of ADHD is a delay in maturity and you can usually knock 3-4 years off their age to get to a 'maturity' level. I often think T (aged 4, nearly 5) is more mature than N - aged 9. Adjust his age like that and I'd be about right!

Bad days I simply try to think of him as around 4-5 yrs old and adjust my expectations accordingly - makes me a little more accepting and tolerant - and keeps him safer.

that makes heaps of sense eleanor - sometimes i think having F and M is almost like having two children of the same age usually when they're both tantrumming in stereo harmony

.

how to cope???

I find it so hard to keep my little one out of trouble she will do any thing to wind me up iywkim.
I have started to let her go to my mums house just for a break I feel so bad for doing it but feel I need the break.

If she is set to do something she cant stop even if it means me having to hold her so she cant move like if she wants to cross the road she has no fear she came 2 feet from getting hit by a car I was so lucky it was an old lady in the car and she was going slow. All cause I let go of her hand to open the car door.Full on biting and hitting if I get her down from heights etc.
Cant go shopping or the doctors with her as she will swing on curtains throw books jump on seats etc I feel bad when people give the look ( you know that control your child look) yesterday some lady said as she walked passed what a live wire this was at the doctors were dd was seeing the doctor cause of being unwell.
She beats up her big sis

any tips on how to deal with outbursts and how to let her know what she has done was not good would be great thank you.

I find timeouts don't work I have to hold her for them she cant even look at me in the eyes when I tell her off mind you even when i talk to her she cant

i let M go to my parents when he gets to be too much - since he is with his dad a lot too i used to hate doing it because it was like i was missing out on 'my' time with him - but i figure, if he goes to my parents they are not all frazzled and will cope with him calmer than i would - even if he stays with me if he is THAT wound up he is only going to get on my nerves and i will yell at him and that sucks for him - better for everyone to have a bit of time out to chill out and then we can start over. kind of like rebooting a computer

i remember when M was younger it was easier because i only had the one child... but we stayed home a lot. i would wait til he was at his dads to shop (or i would get someone else to look after him)... he was a bolter, and he still is a 'need to touch everything in the shop' kind of kid. if i have to take him somewhere i make sure that we get there on time so we don't have to wait... sucks at drs because they are often running late but if you arrive late they might have cancelled your appt.... gahh.

i hear you on the lack of eye contact thing; thats something that drives me nuts with M as well. even if i can get him to make eye contact with me its only for two seconds.... even if i am taking photos of him he looks behind me, or at the top of my head, or anywhere but RIGHT AT ME. and again.. only for two seconds. lets not even get started on how i will be in the middle of talking to him and he will just WALK OFF.

bedtime... i was just pondering this this afternoon

no matter WHAT time i put M to bed, unless he is sick, he won't go to sleep until about 10pm at the earliest he is always up by about 7.30 here... rare that he sleeps in later than that. i have to wake him at 7 for school but he is usually in the waking up stage of his sleep anyway
in the hols i got completely frazzled a few times and sent him to bed about 6pm - he was STILL awake at 10pm

but... if i let him stay up as late as he wants, he reads and reads and reads and then puts himself to bed and is asleep within 10 mins. last night he put himself to bed at 10.30 and was asleep before i got there to tuck him in. if i'd made him go to sleep at 8.15 like i do on a school night... he would still have been awake, just not reading. and he would have been out every five minutes... and it gets frustrating.

when we tried him on ritalin last year he was CRAZY while it was working. but he was in bed, early (for him) every night, asleep, and slept like a rock.

i dunno, would you try and enforce bedtime on the basis that one time in ten it actually works; or would you let him stay up until he was tired every night and then put himself to bed??

(for the record, i remember reading under the covers when i was a wee bit older than him, after i was supposed to have been in bed... and i would read til about 9.30 at night and then put myself to sleep and i never remember being dog tired the next day... do some kids just need less sleep?)

Yes, some kids just need less sleep but sleep problems are common in ADHD kids apparently.

Nicholas would drive us crazy, in and out all night, even to the extent of coming into our room at midnight because there was something he just HAD to tell us right then and there.

We finally sorted it when we moved his care from the CAHMS team to a paed. We had simply been given Supernanny advice - the paed said it's a common prob, couldn't believe they hadn't offered medication to help and prescribed clonidine. He takes some before bed and rather than it being a sleeping pill or anything like that it acts to slow his brain down so he can organise his thoughts and actually go to sleep instead of constantly buzzing.

As the paed said - we medicate them during the day to help them organise themselves and slow the racing thoughts, then in the evening we leave them unmedicated and put them in a room and say now - go to sleep! Doesn't make a heck of a lot of sense really.

It's taken a bit of juggling with meds but we now have a Nicholas who will stay in his room and follow through instructions and be asleep by about 9 - 9:30 instead of midnight or later. The overtired tantrums stopped too - unsurprisingly.

I'm just about crying after reading through this thread. OMG! There are other people out there who experience what I do. Perhaps it isn't all about ME!!!! I have lived with my dsd since she was nearly 4 and well, it has been HELL. Being the primary care giver, I was/ am in charge of the daily routine etc and it has been a daily, ongoing battle. There in the inattentiveness, but worse is the non-compliance and constant answering back/ behaviour issues. And she does things that just make no logical sense. She is 12 now and still leaves poop on the seat, does not flush, constantly loses thing, is rude and disrespectful. Around 3.5 years ago, someone gave me a book about ADHD and it described her perfectly. But I couldn't get dh to listen. Finally I threatened to move out and he agreed to have her assessed. She was given a diagnosis, but he still won't really acknowledge that there is a problem, nor will the extended family. This of course is not helped by the fact that she is a perfect little angel everytime she visits them and when they visit us. She lies, steals food, is manipulative, loses EVERYTHING, can't get herself organised, doesn't follow instructions (I totally hear you teacup on the giving instructions 15 times)... I am totally at the end of my tether. She dominates family holidays by creating all these dramas and refusing to do things I know she can do. Her personal hygiene is appalling. She has started menstruation and can you imagine the hideousness of that??? We had used tampons going through the wash, bloody pads unwrapped hanging out of her school bag... I could go on and on and on...

Thing is, I am at the end of my tether. I am sick and tired and constantly getting the blame for her behaviour. No one will acknowledge there is a problem- it's all "children are a product if their environment". I have tried EVERYTHING... no consequences or rewards seem to work. She is immune. And I have days of being so frustrated that I am constantly shouting at her. But HOLY HELL. There is just no let up!

My marriage is on the rocks. I feel like I can't keep living like this. I am miserable, stressed and unhappy. I'm tired of being angry all the time. It's unfair on my other children (we have 3 others ranging from 18 mths - 6 years). And extended family only undermine my efforts.

MIL had a long chat with her about her behaviour and she claimed that she behaves like this because she feels excluded and left out. Her main piece of evidence was her room- it was grotty (because she WRECKED it). So it is now being redocorated and they have bought her a new bed, new desk, new book shelf, new curtains etc. A lot of it was second hand... but need I say more about what I am up against? MIL, dh and I were sitting there a month back discussing her behaviour and MIL says, "there are no capacity issues" and dh totally agrees. I mean, WTF!!!!!! So all these behaviours are NORMAL for a 12 year old?????? I don't think so!!! FFS! Of COURSE there are capacity issues.

But I am just bashing my head against a brick wall.

We start family court counselling the week after next. MIL is paying for her to see a counsellor (because she believes it is all down to emotional issues re her birth Mum)... maybe we will get some help out of all this stuff. But if not, then I am giving in and bowing out. I am so relieved to see that others feel like they don't like their child when they are bio-kids. I feel like that about my dsd, but it always interpreted by everyone as me being the evil step-parent. And it is not a role I am willing to play ANYMORE.

Sorry for the long, incomprehensible rant....

Oh and we have the sleeping problems here too BIG TIME. She often looks exhausted and seems to need a lot of sleep, but never settles at night till really late. Sometimes she is awake till the early hours of the morning. Then she can barely function in the morning. She seems tired a lot.

She is not on medication (because like I said, no one will acknowledge there might be an actual disability), but I read about some natural product that has melatonin in it. Worth a try?

the extended family thing can be SO hard. my ex (i dunno if i have said all this, sorry REFUSES to believe there are any issues - M struggles socially because of his erratic behaviour but the ex says things like 'no, its because hes SMARTER than all the other kids so they don't like him'. and 'my sister teaches and she says there is no way he has ADHD' - well, his sister lives in another town and sees him once every few months for, what, less than a day at a time? HARDLY enough time to make any kind of judgement, especially on what he is like at school.

recently he started going to an after school group thing with my ex who refused to tell them that he had ADHD because 'oh, they'll treat him differently'. sure, instead of wondering what the hell is wrong with him, they'll know and understand and perhaps be a bit more patient, but OHH NO WE CAN'T HAVE THAT. he is all about ADHD being percieved as a 'negative' thing but then his behaviour totally reinforces that - we haven't actually sat M down and talked to him about it, but when he does find out, do you think he's going to feel comfortable with it when he finds out his father doesn't want to tell people about it... heck no. he's going to think that if his dad thinks its something to be ashamed of, then, surely he must be right? but the ex also refuses to entertain the idea that his own behaviour might be a problem... ugh.

its like they don't want to think that there might be something 'wrong' with M so they just ignore it and hope it will go away? and, look, its not like i think he is 'wrong' or 'broken' myself - i think of it similar to someone who has, say, depression - theres some kind of imbalance in their head, it doesn't mean that they're terrible people doomed to a life of underachievement, yanno? - but the kid CLEARLY has more issues to deal with than the average child. but no, when we go see someone about it the ex says he has NO problems with M and he does what he's asked and helps out around the house and rah rah rah... then three days later he is ringing me telling me that M hid in his room for two hours before doing his homework and then after that it took him three hours to do it because he kept getting distracted and that he takes forever to get ready in the morning because he gets distracted or forgets what he's doing... yada yada yada. SO FRUSTRATING. and without acknowledgement that theres something wrong they can't/won't help him effectively and so while we do as much as we can here... it feels kind of futile at times because as soon as he goes away again, he forgets it all. we have him for a long holiday once a year (two weeks at a time) and when he has routine and consistency theres a definite difference - pity the other 50 weeks of the year can't be the same

hope your counsellor can help... can they gently guide your dh and extended family to accepting the diagnosis a bit more?at the very least i hope they can point out that her behaviour is NOT normal for a 12 year old... right??

Just read a very good ADHD article

http://www.kiwifamilies.co.nz/Topics/Education/Learning-Difficulties/ADHD.html

And thought I would share the link