My baby is 7 months old and has never slept well (by himself). He was diagnosed with silent reflux at 2 weeks. Was better on ranitidine for a couple of months and could get himself to sleep. Then got bad flu/cold and hasn't been able to get himself to sleep for past 3 months. Changed to losec about same time and seemed to help but still problem with sleep. His night sleep has got worse also. Maybe coinciding with increased solids as he is prone to constipation. I currently rock him to sleep for about 1 1/2 hrs a day, and push him in the buggy over 2 hrs a day so that he sleeps. He's been sick 4 times in 2 months and he's even harder to get to sleep. Past 2 nights I've been up since 3.30 rocking him then holding him. Lately he wakes up betwen 3.30 and 5 and doesn't want to go back to sleep. I'm exhausted and had enough of the variability. Please can you help...

Four questions (sorry if info already here I don't have time to trawl through)

1. Which formula good for baby, don't know if has dairy intolerance, but is prone to constipation

2. Does anyone know if losec linked with insomnia? Plunket nurse thought there might be. He's on 30mg / day and he weighs 10.5 kg

3. Does anyone know anyone who can help me look after the baby? I live in Christchurch and need someone trustworthy and capable (obviously), preferably with some knowledge of reflux. We can pay, can't afford it but I'm at wit's end

4. Is there some special way to get reflux babies to sleep in their cot???

I have a 2 year old as well, that's why it's so hard.

I'm so sorry things are so bad for you at the moment . Having a refluxer is so very hard, been there, done that!

It sounds as if your wee boy has got used to being held and rocked to sleep and he is unable to settle himself. We got into the same situation with our refluxer, we felt that we had to respond to him every time he cried as usually we would find him in a pool of vomit. It made it very hard for us to be able to try a sleep program with him, in fact, it was when he was 18 months old and after reflux surgery that he finally slept well. Have you tried controlled crying - if you are happy to use that method, or other sleep methods? For me, I found controlled crying the best for my situation, I didn't have to leave him crying for too long and in a few days he was sleeping. It is a hard few days but worth it if you stick to it.

It sounds as if you have got yourself so exhausted, heck, looking after a 7 month old and a 2 year old is bad enough without reflux and poor sleep thrown in. That would be my advice, to teach him to self settle and fall asleep on his own. It sounds as if he is really well medicated, 30mg of losec is a high dose, so hopefully the pain of reflux is controlled. I have not heard of losec being linked with insomnia.

I don't know about formula sorry, it has been years since I had to worry about that.

Can you contact Barnardos, they could put you in touch with a caregiver. Do you have family around that can help? I'm not from Christchurch so don't know what services are available there but your GP should be able to help.

Good luck, I wish there was more I could do to help. Hang in there .

I really feel for you, cause it just feels like a never ending nightmare doesn't it .... My initial reaction is that his reflux is out of control, which may just be reflux, or may be food intolerances causing it to flare up. 30% of our refluxers are allergic/intolerant to dairy, so that would certainly be a place to start.

have you been to the website: http://www.cryingoverspiltmilk.co.nz? There are some good pages on there with advice and tips to help. Things that really helped me with my twins were/are: tilting the cot on an angle, keeping baby upright for half an hour after a feed (basically letting the food progress further into their tummies before lying them down, keeping the pressure off the tummy valve that isn't working properly), not giving my girls any tummy time or do anything that allowed them to lie flat.

There are two problems with reflux, one is that the valve at the top of their tummy isn't working properly yet, and is allowing stomach contents to come back up. The second problem is that the stomach makes too much acid, which when combined with the valve problem, often causes acid burns (oeshpagitis) in their throats. This can then cause major issues with feeding etc.

Does your bubs spill? Have you tried gaviscon? My girls need both losec and gaviscon - the losec to turn the stomach pumps off, and the gaviscon to thicken the feeds making it harder for the stomach contents to go back up their throats.

I assume that bubs is eating solids? My suggestion would be that there is something in what he's eating that is causing a reaction, which in turns causes the reflux to flare up. So I would suggest to stop all foods (I know this sounds drastic, but it's the only way to figure out if there is anything that he's reacting to) and go back to straight formula. Give the reflux and oesphagitis time to settle and then try solids again. In fact, I would try alternate formulas first before going back onto solids.

Most paeds etc put babies over the age of 6 months with diary issues onto soy first, and if they can't tolerate this then will move to either pepti junior or neocate. For me, Neocate was a miracle!! All of a sudden my girls slept ... and WITHOUT being on me - before this I spent all day in my lazyboy chair with them sleeping on me, and most of the night ....

So in amoungst all this, my main suggestion is to stop solids temporarily, try soy, and if no joy after a few days go see a paed (in fact make an appointment now cause it takes a few days at least ....) and get a special authority number for neocate. Then once this has been done, and if bubs is settled and happy, then try solids again. But do it really really slowly and keep a food diary.

My dietician has said to do one food every 4-5 days. On day one you give them 1/4 teaspoon of the food. On day two double this to 1/2 teaspoon. On day 3 double this again to 1 teaspoon, day 4 2 teaspoons and day 5 4 teaspoons. If at any stage along the way bubs reacts (our girls get constipated, diahhroa, nappy rash, and the wonderful reflux flare up, so sleepless nights, grizzly, clingy, etc) then stop the food and don't touch it again for months and months.

My thoughts would also be that it may be worth going to see a dietician and an immunologist. They should be able to help with his diet to see exactly what he might be reacting to and suggest alternatives.

Haven't heard about losec being linked to insomnia, but if the reflux has caused the acid burns then reflux babies will NOT sleep ... in fact my girls stayed awake virtually all day so that they were exhausted enough to sleep most of the night - and this is VERY common for reflux bubs ....

Your story is so achingly familiar to me ... my heart goes out to you. But I really think that the only way to improve this is to see specialists .... My girls now are just incrediable! I actually enjoy them now, which makes a huge change from the first year .... it will get better I promise .... just hang in there ...

Hi there,
In christchurch theres a plunket family centre in Riccarton. I took my 3 mth old there, they try and help with settling babies and offer advice etc. It really is worth it, the numbers in the phone book. Its a really supportive environment and you can talk to other mums going through similar circumstances
Hang in there :-)

You've got some excellent advice above, I just wanted to say that we are where you are at the moment and offer you my sympathies . My son is also 7 months and we are seeing an immunologist to try and deal to some of the food issues.

My sister's refluxer (and I know it's very common in refluxers) was very prone to ear chest and throat infections. My son has an ear and throat infection at the moment plus bronchiolitis and it's hell! It's certainly the time of year for them... I'm sure you have already thought of this, but you need to rule these out before doing controlled crying.

All the best. You're doing a fab job! I hope you get some help.

Thanks for your responses. Have tried crying technique before, worked for a while then not. Currently he's sick all the time so can't do that. Tends to get himself on to back and thrash his arms and legs about and swallow a lot of wind (and he hates to have wind) so doesn't work.

I have a paed who's pretty helpful although didn't know 30% refluxers are dairy intolerant, and suggested just going on a normal formula. I just don't want baby getting any more constipated so was wondering if anyone had a baby in a similar situation and which commercial brand was good.

Maybe I'll try an immunologist.

Keep the advice coming!!! Thanks

Gaviscon made him constipated so don't want to try that again.

Barnardos were OK but just offered someone to come in 5 months time to talk about parenting issues etc(!). The Plunket Family Centre are great but basically said I have to wait it out for 3-6 months and try sleep techniques when he's not sick.

I try all the normal reflux mgmt techniques but he still has tummy time cos I figure that it will only get significantly better when he is more upright and if he doesn't have tummy time then how's he going to sit and crawl? Genuinely wondering, not being smart.

As far as a formula you can get from the supermarket, we are on Nestle Nan HA (stands for hypo-allergenic) and is working OK for us at the moment.

It won't be long before he can sit on his own - that will help a little. Hang in there

Neither of my girls had ANY tummy time till they were about 7 months old, and have been right on time with crawling and walking with other kids their age group. In fact with walking they were one of the first .... a lot of that comes from the fact that they are VERY motivated to walk, as it really makes the reflux more manageable, cause then they're upright most of the day, keeping the pressure off the tummy valve. I worried about the fact that they'd be delayed developmentally with rolling, crawling and walking, but it really hasn't been an issue for us at all.

I found with one of my two who had constipation issues, if I put a little sugar in her drink or food (on biscuits for example) that softens her up. Alternatively the gp can prescribe lactolose which is a good constipation meds.

the Karicare reflux formula (I think it was called HA ... can't remember ...) won't be good, simply because the formula's that are targetting reflux are thicker, which makes constipation worse. So don't go down that road. Soy formulas and neocate are thinner formula's than the regular stuff.

Just thought I should clarify this - hypoallergenic does not mean that your baby will not react to this formula if he has a dairy allergy/intolerance - it was recommended to us by the paed cause I had allergies as a kid.

hi there

i would definitley give dairy free a try. the gastro paed we saw here in london seemed to suggest that constipation can be realted to this, and if your son is prone to bad wind that can be another sign that digestively all is not well too.

for us, ranitidine and losec did bugger all until we came off the dairy (at 8/ 9 months) onto neocate formula.

as the others have said, solids can also really complicate the issue. i would be tempted to go back to baby rice and pear, and start all over again.

until the reflux was under control, my daughter had constant ear infections/ viruses, liek your son. every week she had something. it just makes everything harder.

hang in there. it does get better when you get to the bottom of the reflux. but where you are right now absolutley sucks.

if he will sleep in the buggy the paed said it was fine to leave them in there all night. basically do anything that helps you to survive!

good luck

I too have a 7 mth old refluxer. He is on losec & gaviscon, as well as neocate formula, but still we have a huge problem with wind, which causes him a lot of pain, and he often wakes up from sleeps day & night needing to be winded. I also can relate to the rocking, as we seem to do it an awful lot, as well as gentle bouncing which bubs loves but it killing my back and knees !! It's really frustrating when it seems like no-one can help, I'm right there at the moment. What area of ChCh are you in as I live there also?

HI Dani T, I live in Avonside. Yeah, I realised today that I grossly underestimated the time I spend rocking him (let alone holding him).

I gave him some Karicare Gold last night and tonight but I tasted it and it's pretty yuck. I'm doubtful that he'll tolerate it very well.

He's only eating pear, baby rice, carrot, kumara, avocado and banana, and I know the baby rice is definitely stopping him up so limiting that, as well as the banana. I was only mashing stuff instead of pureeing it, he's better on the smoother stuff.

Wondering how he's going to get iron with limited baby rice and I presume meat is a no-no since it's so hard to digest?

I've basically been dairy free for 2 months, thou still have baking occasionally with it - does this really matter?

Is high pitched screeching common for refluxers, as well as coughing? Aargh.

So many questions....

Is he current breast or bottle fed?

Insomnia is listed as an uncommon side-effect of Losec. Side-effects are more common with high doses and he is on a reasonably high dosage. Does he appear to be sore at night or just not settling? Mum tends to know her baby the best.

Have you been in touch with the Plunket Family Centre? I presume they should be able to advise you who can help. I think it is Rangi who run a nanny school and you can sometimes get a nanny student through them that might be a help. http://www.pepsicles.co.nz/ provides help (at a cost) for parents of newborns so may be able to put you on to who could help out.

Re the sleeping in the cot, have you got the head raised? Doing this and using a fitted sleeping bag which fits over the mattress or a safe-t-sleep stops them sliding down the bed and is the best way to get them to sleep in the cot. Crying it out doesn't work well with our babies with reflux. Although behaviour may be a factor it isn't the cause. Controlled crying may be more successful. http://www.askdrsears.com is my favourite website for settling babies attachment parenting style. But if you are "past it", put him in the cot, walk out and take a few minutes to collect yourself before going back in to settle him.

I haven't read through the replies and your answers but will eventually. Hope this is of some help. Oh and give me a call if you want - phone number is on Crying Over Spilt Milk. Leave a message if I don't answer and I'll phone you back.

banana is a bad food for refluxers ... would avoid it ....

Barnardoes is an excellant idea!

I wouldn't stop the solids entirely. Maybe simplify it to the safest of the solids you have introduced. Not introducing them around this age can lead to all sorts of problems. http://www.nutriciababy.co.nz/main/nutrition/the_nutricia_feeding_guide_for_b.html is a good guide if you combine it with the reflux guidelines here: http://www.cryingoverspiltmilk.co.nz/Food/FoodandReflux.htm

Re the paediatrician and not knowing about dairy allergy being common amongst babies with reflux, this would make me concerned. Medication is not the answer to all reflux problems. Careful dietary and medical management is. Give Nutricia a call and ask them what formula they would suggest. The commercial options are HA (which is designed for babies at risk of allergies but without a diagnosed one), Goat's milk formula or soy formula as long as you continue with solids/breastfeeding as it is not meant to be used as a sole source of nutrition. Then of course there is the cow's milk based formulas. We can't really give advice on the forum as to what is best for your baby. This needs to be done by their health professionals or dietician eg Nutricia. If you are breastfeeding, I would encourage you to try a dairy free diet for yourself for up to two weeks. This will give you an idea as to whether dairy is the problem or not and help you make a more informed choice about formulas.

The HA formulas are hypoallergenic not thickened - thickened is AR. Nutricia were bringing out one that was both. No formula should cause constipation though even if it is thickened as long as it is made up exactly according to instructions. If it causes constipation it is because of reaction to something in the formula - not the thickness of the formula.

If constipation is such an issue it would be good to get this treated. Constipation causes increased reflux. There are some simple things you can do yourself but not all infants with reflux can cope with these. http://www.nutriciababy.co.nz/userdata/attachments/Guide_to_Constipation.pdf If this fails then see your doctor for something like Lactulose. The constipation may settle with time or change in diet but a lot of our babies with reflux have poor gut motility so are more prone to constipation. Constipation increases wind as well.

Hope all our tips help.

Just wanted to add that we were told to avoid avocado, banana, apple and potato when we introduced solids to our refluxer.

horoeka and DaniT - hope things are going better for your both and that you were able to catch up and offer some support to each other

Hi there. New to this site but have to admit to reading all your suggestions. Reading Horoeka's thread it was like reading my own. I have 6 mth old. We are on PJnr and 10mg losec caps 7.00am and 7pm. Only kumera for solids as he appears to be dairy intolerant and I stopped everything else- hourly. We are also up 2-6x a night with screaming. He has had broncilitis which I read is common in reflux bubs for the last 4 weeks at Drs today and told he has a sore throat- no kidding, but I feel the waking is reflux related. Any suggestions of where I go from here. I have a paed appt next week. Should I up losec or change to Neocate? Have tried s elm but didn't notice much. Which probiotics are dairy free also? Sorry all the questions but a mindfield as you all know. Appreciate help

Sorry meant we are up- hourly.

I would change to neocate as pepti junior has trace amounts of dairy in it, and it sounds to me like bubs reflux is out of control still, so perhaps this with an increase in losec .... Huge hugs, it's such a nightmare ...

Hi 2and2
You will need to discuss with paediatrician about formulas and Losec dose. 20mg of Losec is a pretty good dose for a six-month-old. Side-effects are more common with higher doses.
Does he have other symptoms of allergy with the Pepti-Junior? Pepti-Junior contains proteins broken down into peptides and Neocate is broken down even further to amino acids.
Re probiotics, a health food shop should be able to help you out but there is some information here: http://www.cryingoverspiltmilk.co.nz/AlternativeTherapies/Probiotics.htm There are others also. I was buying some for my 15-year-old today. I personally like the Kyodophilus as it doesn't need to be refridgerated and is reasonably priced. I understand that bifidum is a good strain to have in a probiotic for a baby.

He has had a great 5 nights. I have been giving him his second losec at 6.30pm and it seems to have helped.Still have bags and dark rings under my eyes though from a horrific month though. He has no other symptoms now so obviously the losec and kumara only diet is working. Guess I can say it's under control- for now!
I know not to change things while the going is good, but I am wondering if he should be on Neocate? Guess I am concerned he will still be good for "Paed. appointment in a week then after appointment it will turn to custard and I missed my opportunity. What do people think? Do they give a prescription change for me to hold on to just in case? Does one rule out the other? If I start Neocate can I go back to Peptijunior without going back to Paed?

Once you get a special authority number for neocate, you'll still have the pepti junior on record (they won't cancel it) so you can just get a script from your gp to go back to it if you want to. So I'd be tempted to get neocate from the paed, do a trial and then decide what you're going to do.

I thought that if you have a specail authority number you could get either.
We never went back to the paed for a script.
He put us on pepti and then the dietition told us to go onto neocate. I went to the GP and they gave me the script for neocate.
After that whenever I needed some neocate the GP wrote me a script no questions asked.

Hi there, sorry to hear of your troubles. It sounds oh so familar to me also. I think you need to get to a paedeatrician if you haven't already because it sounds like a food intolerance of some sort. I used to spend an 1 1/2 rocking my son to sleep when he was breastfed. But at 5 1/2 months he went onto neocate formula and after 3 weeks on that there was a noticeable change in his ability to settle to sleep. I was down to 15 mins of rocking! Although he still can't settle himself to sleep he is so much happier and was able to come right off his losec. Now that he has started solids some foods upset him and can cause his old haunts come back - like waking at 3am for the day etc! It's sounds like you are doing everything you can - and I know that when you're that exhausted having the energy to walk them in the buggy isn't always the easiest either. I wouldn't bother trying to leave him to cry himself to sleep as I never had any success with that and it just adds to the stress of everything when you are already going through enough. My advice is that a happy feeder is a happy sleeper and I think you will need to address the feeding before his sleeping will get any better. Neocate has been a lifesaver for us. Perhaps stopping solids and slowly reintroducing them may be the answer. I really feel for you. Best of luck.

If you're wondering why my post doesn't make much sense it's cause I only read page 1 of this discussion. Sorry a bit of a newbie to this. LOL .

Hi
If his reflux is controlled with Pepti Junior, Losec and Kumara only then I don't think you need to change to Neocate.

In terms of getting in help - have you thought about looking at getting an Au pair or something like that?

Just an update - Went to different paed and much more helpful. NOw on neocate and certainly better on that. Still 1 breastfeed cos I can't bring myself to stop altogether. The paed thought 30mg losec might be a bit high and giving him headaches (reported by adults on high doses). So we went down to 20mg but he seemed worse. Now settled on around 25mg (!).

He's sleeping better at night, 7-8 hours straight so I should be pleased with that. He still wakes early goes back to sleep with a lot of effort but it's better than before. Still pushing him in buggy during day but he's down to 2 longer naps so better. Keep trying to get him to sleep in cot and he just sobs or screams and I can't take it. Bought him a Babe-OK sleeper or whatever which holds them in place when cot on angle - he acted like he was in a straightjacket/being tortured. So now have the cot on only very slight angle cos otherwise he ends up at bottom sideways so no point anyway. He seems to prefer a bigger angle but can't work out how to keep him in place without the harness thing.

We got a nanny which we can't afford. She's good but again hard to reeducate her re. reflux babies. But certainly less stress than before.

Have started giving him a wider range of food which initially he seemed ok on, but now he seems to be pooing 4 times a day. We all have had a stomach bug so could be that but it's been 4 days now with food going through him very quickly. Has anyone else had this experience?

Hi Horeka

Sounds like progress. I would persevere with the Babe-Ok Sleeper or purchase a safe-t-sleep where it only goes around their stomach so that you can keep bed up higher. Can you let him settle to sleep without it and then sneak him into it? I'm sure he will eventually get used to it.

Is the frequent motions upsetting him? Neocate does make softer motions with a dark colour. I wouldn't worry about it personally. As you introduce more solids it will probably firm up.

Things a lot better now. He settles easier, can even put him down when not quite asleep and he just sucks his thumb and clings on to his blankie! SO cute. Bed flat and he doesn't seem to mind. Had a horrendous winter, think he was sick 7 separate times, the last one he had vomiting and diarrhoea which was fun. not giving him many foods, just started some lamb so we'll see. Still worried about iron intake - any tips (he's now 9 months)?

Thanks for ALL your input and support, it's meant a lot to me.

Incremin supplement for additional iron or floradix.

It is important to have Vitamin C with iron so veges and meat together. Pate can be a helpful source of iron at this age. Another idea are aria farm chips to eat as finger food, gluten free dairy free luncheon meat is usually well liked - it is also the stuff that is mostly fat free.
Stew some meat and give the gravy with the vegetables. If you do it long enough there are lots of juices in the gravy. Slow cooker is great for this.

Hi, I've just been reading your thread and I just wanted to say that I'm glad that things are improving - life on the reflux roller coaster is not easy - I know because my DS is 5 and still has it (currently controlled).

We are only new at this too and are still working through'whatever works'.
But a friend has lent me a hammock for sleeping your one might be too old for this, not sure if they have them for older babies, but its the only way he sleeps for us in the day at the moment , maybe try a hire place. Also an osteopath told me to try Goats milk formula, we have been on that for about 8 weeks now and I think it helps, and his motions are more like breastfed motion, no more contispation. His wind has reduced in a big way since on the goats milk. Its quite expensive though.
good luck

Thanks for sharing traj. My refluxer is still a goat's milk girl at age eight years. Goat's milk was recommended to us by her paediatrician because she was allergic (delayed reactions) to cow's milk in my diet and soy formula. Goat's milk is however rather controversial and not recommended by most allergy experts as the proteins are similar to cow's milk. Goat's milk used to be subsidised with a special authority number if applied for by a paediatrician and I think it still can be.

He's on Neocate formula and seems fine. He's eating a wider variety of things and seems OK as long as I don't give him too much of the slightly dodgy ones (banana, avocado, tiny bits of wheat bread). It all seems to be to do with his bowel, make sure I give him a balance of things that might constipate and things that will make him 'go' in each meal. The probiotic also helps move things along so that's been helpful.

Honestly he's a completely different baby. My father-in-law can't get over the difference from 2 weeks ago- happy to be crawling and exploring, feeding himself, gets to sleep a lot more easily. Happy days are here again! Well, mostly anyway! Nanny has finished after 2 months so we'll see how I feel in a few days!